Is rain no longer potable?

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by thesaltytar

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...arth?_amp=true

My fiancee just shared this article with me, the contents of which I find equally concerning and depressing. I haven't done a deep dive in this topic yet but is this something that is widely known in the cruising community?

Is it really dangerous, and is this something we can effectively treat onboard with a filtration system (and chemical sanitization if needed)? Losing access to rainwater catchment strategies would have a large effect on our approaches to resource management.

Here is the thing with all this.

If there is a toxic chemical in rainwater, it got there from the air the raindrops pass through.

Yes, the same air we are breathing.

SO the 4 parts per trillion in that glass of rainwater is the same exact 4 parts per trillion that is entering your lungs with every breath.

At some point, you need to stop worrying, and get on with your life.

AND if you ever get a chance to vote on more toxic chemicals released to the air or less, please vote less.

I'm more worried about picking up a tropical parasite from seagull poop in my rainwater than any micro toxins.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Here is the thing with all this.

If there is a toxic chemical in rainwater, it got there from the air the raindrops pass through.

Yes, the same air we are breathing.

SO the 4 parts per trillion in that glass of rainwater is the same exact 4 parts per trillion that is entering your lungs with every breath.

At some point, you need to stop worrying, and get on with your life.

AND if you ever get a chance to vote on more toxic chemicals released to the air or less, please vote less.

I'm more worried about picking up a tropical parasite from seagull poop in my rainwater than any micro toxins.

And I know all that "harmless" stuff listed on the label of the jar of pickles I buy at the supermarket is going to kill me first anyway.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

"Below is a picture of the resulting canisters containing the toxins aboard a USAF C130 Hercules. Amazing that this photo was able to be smuggled out by a ground crew at the secret military airbase in Tennant Creek, Australia, where the plane was being refueled."



How about now?

That little gem had slipped from my grey matter, prolly due to long covid effects. I've reformatted, rebooted, reloaded the backup and ran the virus checker - all good now, just need a cup of tea - oh wait, maybe it was the water in tea after all.

I'll get back to you after logging some pre-tea base line data.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Wotname

That little gem had slipped from my grey matter, prolly due to long covid effects. I've reformatted, rebooted, reloaded the backup and ran the virus checker - all good now, just need a cup of tea - oh wait, maybe it was the water in tea after all.

I'll get back to you after logging some pre-tea base line data.

More or less ditto from me, I normally don't let that sort of thing through to the keeper.

[Jim Cate]

Just a comment: When you talk about concentrations in the sub part per trillion level, just about any environmental sample will have detectable amounts of EVERYTHING.

And identifying harmful effects upon human life from such contaminant levels is pretty difficult, and "safe" levels are often poorly identified and arbitrary in nature.

Bottom line for me is that I've got better things to worry about!

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

If there is a toxic chemical in rainwater, it got there from the air the raindrops pass through.

Yes, the same air we are breathing.

SO the 4 parts per trillion in that glass of rainwater is the same exact 4 parts per trillion that is entering your lungs with every breath.

At some point, you need to stop worrying, and get on with your life.

You're over stating the problem by 1000. It's only 0.004 parts per trillion
You are dead right about it being in the air as well, but whether it is in the same proportion in air as in rain is a moot point.

And just remember that every breathe you take probably also contains some of Julius Caesar's last breath.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

J
... and "safe" levels are often poorly identified and arbitrary in nature.

And frequently financially and/or politically motivated

[MicHughV]

is rain water no long potable ????

ha ha ha....ask the guy in the lift raft, he'd be the authority on the matter...!!

[Cyrus Safdari]

Who remembers drinking water out of garden hoses with the plasticky taste? Has anyone followed up on that?

The issue with these Persistent chemicals like dioxins is not just their concentrations in the environment - it is that they are Persistent in the environment and so are bio-accumulated in living organisms with higher concentrations higher up the food chain (which is why you reaaasky should not eat whale blubber) with all sorts of consequenes to for exampke the development of offspring. This is just one of many environmental concerns, you should read up on nuclear waste dumping at sea in places like the Faralon Islands

To bring the thread back to cruisers' concerns:
It occurs to me that that linings of plastic tanks aboard probably expose us to chemicals regardless of how clean the water may be

I am building an integrated freshwater tank in the keel & have been looking into proper paint that is ACtually certfied for use in small capacity eater tank linings, as opposed to being simply ok for "food contact" or for use in very large water containers (with proportionally more volume to internal surface area) and though I have found it, I don't doubt there are scary chemicals other tham H2O in there

[Pelagic]

For those few of us who drink more water than beer, ...perhaps a better discussion is over solutions to keep your drinking water management clean, fresh and economical, both in power and opportunity …if using R/O.

Points to consider:
Cruising in Asia or other areas where water pollution is rampant, no pump out facilities in Marinas and the locals dump everything into the sea and sky, you need to choose carefully what water you drink.
Rainy seasons means less solar energy to make water and often then you are in large community anchorages with polluted oily water, so you don’t want to make water there!!

A good way to manage this is if you have the space for dedicated fresh water tanks which I managed to do because I have a big old steel hull with deep bilges for 3 tanks.

1. The main integral tank is large, about 400 gallons, serves as additional ballast and is normally kept full with our 30 gph water maker I bought from Rich. “Only R/O water goes in there”… But the problem with that amount for 2 people is that the water can go stale.
2. A now unused Grey water tank of about 150 gallons just forward of that is our is our backup Rainwater or Dock water tank and can be selected for domestic uses like toilets and showers if I don’t want to use the R/O… as an aside I am presently testing this as a Fresh water cooling tank for the small galley aircon…
3. A stainless 30 gallon tank supplies my drinking water tap with only fresh R/O product through an under counter filtration and ultraviolet module and is independent of the domestic supply….

In essence if you can fit a small dedicated drinking water tank and system for your daily needs, that gives you more options on what goes in the main tank.

We just did a 9 year service on the 2 integral tanks so here are some photos after sanding and priming.... Zero rust issues... (love Corten Steel)

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

For those few of us who drink more water than beer, ...perhaps a better discussion is over solutions to keep your drinking water management clean, fresh and economical, both in power and opportunity …if using R/O.

Points to consider:
Cruising in Asia or other areas where water pollution is rampant, no pump out facilities in Marinas and the locals dump everything into the sea and sky, you need to choose carefully what water you drink.
Rainy seasons means less solar energy to make water and often then you are in large community anchorages with polluted oily water, so you don’t want to make water there!!

A good way to manage this is if you have the space for dedicated fresh water tanks which I managed to do because I have a big old steel hull with deep bilges for 3 tanks.

1. The main integral tank is large, about 400 gallons, serves as additional ballast and is normally kept full with our 30 gph water maker I bought from Rich. “Only R/O water goes in there”… But the problem with that amount for 2 people is that the water can go stale.
2. A now unused Grey water tank of about 150 gallons just forward of that is our is our backup Rainwater or Dock water tank and can be selected for domestic uses like toilets and showers if I don’t want to use the R/O… as an aside I am presently testing this as a Fresh water cooling tank for the small galley aircon…
3. A stainless 30 gallon tank supplies my drinking water tap with only fresh R/O product through an under counter filtration and ultraviolet module and is independent of the domestic supply….

In essence if you can fit a small dedicated drinking water tank and system for your daily needs, that gives you more options on what goes in the main tank.

We just did a 9 year service on the 2 integral tanks so here are some photos after sanding and priming.... Zero rust issues... (love Corten Steel)

We do the same thing. This same stainless steel tank also receives the output (which then overflows into the main tank) from the watermaker and this tank also supplies the rinsing water for the watermaker.

The main benefit is nice drinking water, both because it is only stored in a stainless tank, but also the smaller volume ensures drinking water is always recently collected and not stored for long periods.

As a side benefit the watermaker is always rinsed with product water without chlorine so even if the charcoal filter fails the membrane is safe.

The main drawback is that it requires an extra spout and associated pump in the galley, although this does also add redundancy.

[rslifkin]

No separate tanks on my boat and no watermaker, but we're pretty strict about water quality. All water going into the tank gets filtered and chlorinated. Then after the pump and pressure tank, water goes through a 1 micron sediment filter, a carbon and kdf cartridge, then a 0.5 micron carbon block. As long as water is made biologically safe before it goes in the tank this produces good tasting drinking water even if the source water isn't good tasting.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Just a comment: When you talk about concentrations in the sub part per trillion level, just about any environmental sample will have detectable amounts of EVERYTHING.

And identifying harmful effects upon human life from such contaminant levels is pretty difficult, and "safe" levels are often poorly identified and arbitrary in nature.

Bottom line for me is that I've got better things to worry about!

Jim

Well the US government is currently paying thousands of military veterans and their families for cancers caused by poisoned water sources at Camp lejeune. There are many other people facing cancer clusters surrounding military bases. Hawaii comes to mind

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Well the US government is currently paying thousands of military veterans and their families for cancers caused by poisoned water sources at Camp lejeune. There are many other people facing cancer clusters surrounding military bases. Hawaii comes to mind

I'm not familiar with those specific examples, but I will bet the farm that the contaminant levels, whatever they may be, are FAR, FAR greater than fractional parts per trillion.

Jim

[Gadagirl]

It's water. A basic and necessary component to life on our planet and there isn't any place where the water has not been polluted by it. Yes, more concentrated in first world countries where production takes place but also 3rd world countries where production faces little to no regulations. They've found it everywhere on earth.

Good that we talk about running our drinking water through filters in an attempt to mitigate the danger to our health. But if it weren't so sad I'd be laughing that so far in this thread, not one person mentions the impossible task of our food consumption. Our grain, our herds, our poultry, our seafood are all polluted by these chemicals. Every where. Not an inch on earth not affected.. What? We liquefy everything and send it through a carbon filter before we can consume it?

It's residual, never goes away, and builds up, hence the name "forever chemicals". We know it causes different cancers and that has effects on fertility and nervous system development in humans. And we are completely dependent upon it. From waterproof,stain resistant materials, to Teflon pans, to fire retardant furniture and clothing, to the foam used to combat fires at an airport.

I know, I know! I'm as guilty as the next because I too enjoy "modern materials" But I think it's something that should be taken seriously.