Cost/Benefit Ratio of Offsoundings weather reports

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Are you saying that if he doesn’t get a source for GRIBs he’ll probably die on passage?

How about you Stu? Do you have SSB/Pactor and an Iridium, and AIS transceiver and a life raft and a backup life raft and a crash bulkhead near the bow of your boat and seal floatation chambers elsewhere in the boat and an EPIRB and PLB and a trysail and a hurricane jib and have you cut down you mast to help you deal with heavy weather? If not why not? What's your boat and your life worth to you?

I think you win today award for the most histrionic post.

I agree with Stu about weather info at sea. Some of the other items you mentioned seem less critical.

We've had some discussion about this. You have to balance the likely hood of the risk occuring against the impracticality of making the preparation and dealing with it.

We all make these evaluations and decisions.

Here are mine (there are other items you didn't mention and I am sure some are still missing)

• SSB/Pactor or Iridium-YES
• AIS transceiver-YES
• life raft-Yes
• backup life raft-NO
• sealed floatation chambers-NO
• EPIRB-YES
• PLB-NO
• trysail-NO
• hurricane jib (Storm Jib)-Yes
• Cut down you mast-No (I made it taller)
• Clear decks with zero obstructions or items stored on deck-YES
• Nothing secured to stancions-YES
• Arches and extra canvas removed or easily removable-YES
• Quickly reefable (to 3rd reef) mainsail-YES
• Dingy and motor stored below and secured-YES
• Storm anchor instantly available (not on bow however)-YES
• Chain and spare rode stored aft from bow-YES
• Cabin sole and bunks all clear of items and nothing loose.-YES
• Drawers and lockers and cabin sole boards secured-YES
• Loose items kept in secure locations safe from severe motion at sea-YES
• Entire living spaces organized and clear for getting underway at a moment's notice-YES
• Departure heading from anchorage noted before nightfal when anchored-YES
• Windvane and self-steering reinforced, rigged, and ready for use-YES
• Heavy duty working jib bent onto forestay and rigged for hoisting-YES
• Engine and electronics tested daily-YES
• Full house and start battery topped up daily-Yes
• Sufficient fuel in selected tank for motoring away from soundings-YES
• Alternate fuel source with separate filter available for instant selection-YES
• Daily GRIB or WEFAX images downloaded and reviewed-YES
• SSB frequencies and scedules for WEFAX and GRIB downloads posted-YES.
• SSB Radio Net frequencies and schedules noted andposted-YES
• All Comunications subscriptions renewed and tested-YES
• EPIRB Contacts notified of location and planned routes and schedule-YES
• GRAPHIC WEATHER RECEPTION EQUIPMENT-DEFINATELY YES

But the most important preparation of all is:

To select and equip a yacht which can sail well in all directions in the heaviest of weather and to be ready for it at all times.

We don't like heavy weather any more than most other folks but we're ready for it and can handle it without coming home with horror stories about how hard it was.

[Mara Mae]

Originally Posted by wingssail

You have to balance the likely hood of the risk occuring against the impracticality of making the preparation and dealing with it.

We all make these evaluations and decisions.


But the most important preparation of all is:

To select and equip a yacht which can sail well in all directions in the heaviest of weather and to be ready for it at all times.

We don't like heavy weather any more than most other folks but we're ready for it and can handle it without coming home with horror stories about how hard it was.

Good point.

[Chris31415]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

1. Simrad VHF/AIS/Transmit

2. Read it and testing components. So far nogo.

3. Good idea for the sunbrella I am considering outriggers with pipe/barrels that contain ditch kit.

4. 1978 CD30c

A garmin inreach explorer is a little handheld device that connects to the Iridium satellites, so “global” coverage. It requires a subscription and allows 2 way messaging and I believe it can report your gps position to a webpage.

For weather, if you have someone reliable on shore who can check the weather forecasts for you it might do the trick. Alternatively, you could also pay for a professional weather router.

[wingssail]

Here are some more items

• Hatch board in place and secured-YES
• Main companionway able to prevent water ingress and lockable from inside and outside-Yes
• Bilge bump operable from outside-Yes
• Heavy capacity manual bilge pumpinstalled and read (inside)-Yes
• Full length jackline (webbing)-Yes
• Inflatable life jackets with teathers, lights and whistles-YES
• Foulweather gear with reflective strips-Yes
• Instant Man Overboard actions on Charting system-YES (and training)
• Instantly deployable lifesling and horsehoe with tall flag-Yes
• Swim Ladder-YES
• Instructions and training for Man Overboard recovery-Yes
• Instructions and training for emergency radio operation-Yes
• Instructions and training for switching to back-up battery and electronic equipment including GPS and charting system-Yes
• Instructions and training for heaving to-Yes
• Gimbled stove and retaining arms for stove top items-YES
• Galley supports for safe hands-free use by cook-Yes
• Separate water supplies in case of contamination and watermaker failure-YES
• Spare parts for most common failure items-YES
• Emergency rudder deployable-NO
• Drogue-NO
• Parachute Sea anchor-NO
• Complete route for planned passage established on your chart plotter with the best available charts and checked by a second person-YES
• Complete and updated ship's log with positions, conditoins, headings and speeds, including maintenance items and failures-YES
• Preset watch schedule posted and followed

If I get out my most recent US Sailing and OSR Safety Equipment and Scantling Requirments worksheet we would see many more items required by offshore racing rules. There are over 100 items required for various types of racing. We have certifiably complied with these requirements previously while racing in major events.


If you go to sea you are playing for keeps. Things can happen which can cost you your boat and your life.

It is only sensible to prepare as best you can, every time.

However there are limits to what you can prepare for. Each person has to set those limits for themselves ans accept the risk if unprepared.

I make sure I am absolutely prepared for ALL of the common or likely events or disasters. I do not try to prepare for those events which are extremely unlikely and difficult to address ahead of time. I accept the risk in those cases.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Adelie

MM:

5-stars has no implication of experience or reputation, 5 stars means you’ve made more than 1,000 posts, good, bad & ugly.

If you go to a member’s profile thou can see how many times they have been thanked. Each box is 100 “Thanks” or fraction of 100. At some point they stop adding boxes and start changing the shade of green.

In my case I think the profile should show how many times prople got angry at someting I wrote. It's probably higher than the "thanks".

I'm working on that.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

T... We are also debating the need/reliability of a dedicated auto inflate life raft versus a properly rigged hard dink with ditch bag and drogue...

Ohl I forgot to mention:

• Properly equiped and certified Offshore Life Raft-YES
• AIS Transciever tied to the chart plotter-YES

[donradcliffe]

I used to race against Wings on sistership Sioc. Good tough boat with no windows to blow out, but it is dark down below. I would worry about the lack of a cabintop to hide behind when the green waves start sweeping the boat.

OTOH, Lowell North told me that due to modern forecasting and commuications, he never saw more than 35k in his circumnavigation, and his next trip 'might even be in a catamaran'.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Chris31415

A garmin inreach explorer is a little handheld device that connects to the Iridium satellites, so “global” coverage. It requires a subscription and allows 2 way messaging and I believe it can report your gps position to a webpage.

For weather, if you have someone reliable on shore who can check the weather forecasts for you it might do the trick. Alternatively, you could also pay for a professional weather router.

In my opinion text or short weather bulletins are insufficent to see the big picture which we need due to our extended time in the theater.

Secondly I prefer to be independant of shore based "friends" or routers. I will gather the information and make my own decisions. That does not mean I don't listen to what forecasters or routers say, I just do not delegate my decisions or safety to someone else.

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I used to race against Wings on sistership Sioc. Good tough boat with no windows to blow out, but it is dark down below. I would worry about the lack of a cabintop to hide behind when the green waves start sweeping the boat.

Your point about windows is valid, however we have several deck prisims and big hatches and a skylight, so it is not dark inside.

For green water protection we have a small, near bullet proof, dodger to hide behind for whatever gets past the spash rail we installed, and boy do we need it, not for greenwater (which we have never seen) but for heavy spray thrown up by the bow and blown back at 40kts towards the cockpit.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by wingssail

In my case I think the profile should show how many times prople got angry at someting I wrote. It's probably higher than the "thanks".

I'm working on that.

I think you're doing quite well!


I think that Thanks thing is silly, too much like "social" media, which is anything BUT social. This is a boating forum to share information and ideas and answer questions from posters. Even if they don't like the answers. Some are even rude enough to say so.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mara Mae

........
...............................
Since you are a coastal cruiser and I specified "offsoundings" in my title for this discussion, perhaps you should either tone down your rhetoric or refrain from commenting altogether since I am looking to mine data you do not possess.

Thanks for your helpful, friendly post. You do realize that the quote of mine you are responding to was addressed and quoted me in Adelie's earlier one, although mine actually contained an example about the importance of weather information gathering, whether inshore or offshore. Same input, same comments, same applicability of what others have been suggesting at your request. The title did say "weather reports", did it not?


Anyways, if you don't want to hear it from me, how about from one of our very own forum members, Dockhead, who has a lot of offshore experience, having been to Greenland and sailed UK to The Baltic every summer for a decade or more?


This is his STICKY in the electronics portion of this very forum:


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...re-160043.html


Don't let the title put you off, the content includes weather input. Don't know if you've seen it.



Glad to help, safe journey.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I agree with Stu about weather info at sea. Some of the other items you mentioned seem less critical......

My response to Stu was mockery for his over the top closing line which was essentially "Do it my way or you will die."

For DonR, I was calling him out for being rude and calling the OP ignorant and foolish. He says he made a mistake and left port during a storm 40yr ago. It sounds like his current position is an over-reaction to that. Not, the wanting all the wx info he can get and afford, but the being rude to those who don't automatically agree that getting all that info is of paramount importance.

Except for indicating that a shortwave receiver and WinMor were the best budget approach, I have not indicated my own opinions on what anyone should carry or what I would carry in the way of weather forecasting equipment or safety gear more generally.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Are you saying that if he doesn’t get a source for GRIBs he’ll probably die on passage?

How about you Stu? Do you have SSB/Pactor and an Iridium, and AIS transceiver and a life raft and a backup life raft and a crash bulkhead near the bow of your boat and seal floatation chambers elsewhere in the boat and an EPIRB and PLB and a trysail and a hurricane jib and have you cut down you mast to help you deal with heavy weather? If not why not? What's your boat and your life worth to you?

I think you win today award for the most histrionic post.

You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

How so I can't take it? Honestly, I don't understand your point.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

...
Anyways, if you don't want to hear it from me, how about from one of our very own forum members, Dockhead, who has a lot of offshore experience, having been to Greenland and sailed UK to The Baltic every summer for a decade or more?

This is his STICKY in the electronics portion of this very forum:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...re-160043.html

Don't let the title put you off, the content includes weather input. Don't know if you've seen it.

Glad to help, safe journey.

Dockhead has lots of experience and has been to Greenland. He also more or less has an expedition class vessel and the personal resources to afford it and a lot of extras. When you have enough money you don't need to be as careful about where the line is between a genuine need and an extra, you can get them both and not worry about it.

That's what the OP is trying to figure out, where the line between need and want is, of more generally the spectrum of need, almost need and nice to have.

The problem here is that most posters are telling the OP what they do and that he should do it too but don't tell him why he should do it the way they do, there's no discussion about the pros and cons. And most of them are being dismissive and rude about it. And that's what I'm busting all your balls about, the rudeness.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Adelie

How so I can't take it? Honestly, I don't understand your point.

I modeled my post to you around your rude and unwarranted personal attack on Stu. I thought you were supposed to be a moderator, not a troublemaker.