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Old 20-05-2022, 06:01   #76
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Ah come on Mike cut n paste stuff and be an expert.
See if you can top my favourable cow fart input.
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Old 20-05-2022, 06:09   #77
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I hear ya...the first page and a half were actually interesting. Then the usual characters came out. It was a worthwhile topic and thank you for that. Lets get back to debating anchors...


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Ah come on Mike cut n paste stuff and be an expert.
See if you can top my favourable cow fart input.
Oh, I've been there, done that ... too often. It's tempting. I haven't been in a good old climate change pissing match in a while, but just like talking religion can be fun for a while, it eventually gets tedious as the same old turf is covered, over and over and over and...

Seriously though, do carry on. I get that it's entertainment for some of us still land-locked. I guess I'm more sanguine about this right now since I'm within a couple of weeks of getting back to my boat (after nearly 2 1/2 years!!!).
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Old 29-05-2022, 12:57   #78
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Here is today's news on that subject of settled science. The South Pacific is nicer in La Nina years.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/weather...ps-popping-up/
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Old 29-05-2022, 18:59   #79
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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Here is today's news on that subject of settled science. The South Pacific is nicer in La Nina years.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/weather...ps-popping-up/

Interesting... I don't get your comment about settled science, but this sounds interesting. Maybe someone can post the actual research on this (I don't have good net access now).
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Old 29-05-2022, 19:39   #80
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Interesting... I don't get your comment about settled science, but this sounds interesting. Maybe someone can post the actual research on this (I don't have good net access now).
Well Mike here is the article in its entirety from the associated press

https://apnews.com/article/what-is-l...01c7dca0c45dcf
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Old 30-05-2022, 01:18   #81
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

I find the posts very interesting. I don't especially understand how climate is political. I guess my own naivete, although solutions will only come from politics, isn't that just so scary.

But I do know that it matters not a tad what the climate was like 300,000, 10,000 or a 1,000 years ago. That's irrelevant for my families and my own future. We can't go back in time. (That's not saying that history doesn't give scientific insight.) But dropping in really rather silly statements that the climate was much worse, 300,000 years ago is just word salad and doesn't help anything does it. Humanity would really struggle to live in that environment if history repeats, let's try to hang on at least a few more generations.

Nor does arguing labels alter the reality one iota. Climate change, climate catastrophe. global warming, global warning, the Holocene, the Anthropocene , derr who gives a sh!t what it's called, how does that help anything?

But thanks Mike for starting us all on this thread journey, and thanks too to Gordie for researching the material I'm far too lazy to search out and read otherwise.
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Old 30-05-2022, 03:29   #82
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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Well Mike here is the article in its entirety from the associated press

https://apnews.com/article/what-is-l...01c7dca0c45dcf

Sorry... When I said "actual research" I meant papers from actual scientists studying the issue, not reports from news organizations.

Again, this seems very interesting. It might indicate a hole in our understanding, or it might be just part of the weather noise. A quick scan of actual climate science websites indicates this has happened twice before since 1950, so pretty unusual, but certainly not unheard of.

Again, it seems interesting, and might drive further research and refinement of climate models (as actual scientists are saying).

This is how science works... by learning and changing when new data drives it. So again... I don't understand the "settled science" comment.
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Old 30-05-2022, 04:06   #83
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Interesting... I don't get your comment about settled science, but this sounds interesting. Maybe someone can post the actual research on this (I don't have good net access now).
The linked article is an Associated Press [AP] climate story[1], about their statistical analysis of winter La Ninas, quoting a number of scientists*, expressing their views on ENSO [El Ninos & La Ninas] trends.
AP doesn’t present their actual analysis, just the barest precis, that:
“... they used to happen about 28% of the time from 1950 to 1999, but in the past 25 winters, they’ve been brewing nearly half the time ...”


I presume that newhaul's comment refers to the fact that the interviewed scientists aren't absolutely certain of [the details of] what's causing the La Nina anomaly [damned if your certain, damned if your not].
He expects that expert scientists [except 'his'] should know everything about everything, when [in reality] specialists are learning more and more, about less and less, until [eventually] they'll know everything, about nothing.

* Michelle L'Heureux [lead Physical Scientist of the ENSO team, NOAA Climate Prediction Center]
https://www.climate.gov/author/michelle-lheureux
https://www.researchgate.net/scienti...eux-2013108387

[1] AP Climate News ➥ https://apnews.com/hub/climate

[1b] AP announces sweeping climate journalism initiative
https://www.ap.org/press-releases/20...ism-initiative
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Old 30-05-2022, 04:52   #84
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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Old 30-05-2022, 07:15   #85
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The linked article is an Associated Press [AP] climate story[1], about their statistical analysis of winter La Ninas, quoting a number of scientists*, expressing their views on ENSO [El Ninos & La Ninas] trends.
AP doesn’t present their actual analysis, just the barest precis, that:
“... they used to happen about 28% of the time from 1950 to 1999, but in the past 25 winters, they’ve been brewing nearly half the time ...”


I presume that newhaul's comment refers to the fact that the interviewed scientists aren't absolutely certain of [the details of] what's causing the La Nina anomaly [damned if your certain, damned if your not].
He expects that expert scientists [except 'his'] should know everything about everything, when [in reality] specialists are learning more and more, about less and less, until [eventually] they'll know everything, about nothing.
]

Gord. Cheap shot. But we both know how science works. Challenging the established science is how science works. Nothing is ever settled.

Mike you are capable of doing the same statistical analysis the AP reporter did and it sounds like you have. I found nothing more on the article . So I posted as such.

I do recall saying we were not done with this La Nina event and was asked how I knew. Well same as the article the statistical history coupled with the temperature stats of the relevant portions of the ocean.
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Old 30-05-2022, 08:28   #86
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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I find the posts very interesting. I don't especially understand how climate is political. I guess my own naivete, although solutions will only come from politics, isn't that just so scary.

In the US everything seems to be political. Mostly people following leaders aimlessly. And yes...very scary.
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Old 30-05-2022, 08:40   #87
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Political? Mask on mask off, guns, abortion rehash, where transvestites pee, stolen election, hair dye running, I thought it was comedy.
I’m Canuck with a Scottish sense of humour I just thought they were having more fun than us. Canadian riot if election babble goes past 6 weeks. It’s serious stuff I’ve seen police attacked with squirt guns and water balloons.
Climate change is not divided by nation for accountability I believe. I think it’s up to the individual. Go pick up some plastic n chill.
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Old 30-05-2022, 09:02   #88
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

or maybe the ocean currents are driving climate change.
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Old 30-05-2022, 09:03   #89
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

Toronto is doing their bit. Green Roof Initiative has really cleaned our air. Provided water to flush toilets from rain reducing burden on sanitation. Growing food .
Storing night time electrical losses in huge air tanks and then running turbines the next day is another global first. Chicago our old pals and Sister City jumped on green roof with us. Now looking at our night time storage system.
If you come visit Toronto try to get into Muggs Channel on Toronto Islands
It’s a provincial park tie ups water plug in
The pump station is at the end of Muggs
Don’t walk through the trees to the beach if nude beaches offend you. Walk south but not on pump station property across the only road on the island and there are 3 family beaches. The islands know climate change from flooding 2017 2019. A Great Lake 1.5 meters above high level
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Old 30-05-2022, 09:19   #90
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Re: Climate change may be driving increases in many ocean current speeds

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I think [climate change action is] up to the individual. Go pick up some plastic n chill.
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Toronto is doing their bit. Green Roof Initiative has really cleaned our air. Provided water to flush toilets from rain reducing burden on sanitation. Growing food.

Storing night time electrical losses in huge air tanks and then running turbines the next day is another global first. Chicago our old pals and Sister City jumped on green roof with us. Now looking at our night time storage system.
Of course things will be helped by people making personal decisions and making efforts to clean up and to use less. But as your second quote indicates, it requires leadership, decisions and action at the highest levels to really make the big systemic and structural changes towards cleanup and sustainability.

We had a brief sail on Saturday. We noticed a slight smoggy haze over the city, and were again amazed at the clarity of the water, thanks to zebra mussels. Our actions do have consequences.
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