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23-12-2024, 18:04
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Boat: Nordic Tug 37
Posts: 150
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbigel
I have the Balmar 712 wired directly to my (LFP) house bank. Here's how I've set up my system to respond to SOC%.
I mounted a Victron SolidSwitch 104 next to the Balmar and I ran the ignition wire so it goes through the SolidSwitch and THEN to the Balmar (before it was wired directly to the Balmar so when the engine power was turned on, power also turned on the Balmar).
The ignition wire connects to the Bat+ terminal on the SolidSwitch and then another wire (preferably brown) is run from Load on the SS to the Balmar ignition switch terminal.
Next, I ran a wire from my CerboGX, mounted at the nav station, to the compartment where my Balmar 712 is mounted and I connected that to the RemoteH terminal on the SolidSwitch. (almost done, I connected a batter negative line to the Bat- terminal on the SS).
Finally, I program the CerboGX Generator Start/Stop to "turn on the generator" at a specific SOC% and conversely, shut it down when the SOC% reaches as specific state, for example on=60% off=75%, or whatever you prefer.
Now, based on the example numbers above, whenever you turn on your engine ignition switch, if the SOC% on the Cerbo is below 60%, the signal is sent to the relay and the voltage regulator is energized and begins to operate as normal. Conversely, when the SOC% on the Cerbo reaches 75% the signal is disabled which shuts off the SolidSwitch relay and removes power from the regulator - this is totally safe, I've been doing it for 4 years and the system works perfectly.
Note: I also installed an override switch with wiring to bypass the SolidSwitch and force the alternator to charge even if I am not below the trigger threshold. Additionally, I have a relay wired also connected to my LFP BMS which is the "always on" kind of relay, a warning signal from the BMS (due to low voltage, over voltage, over temp, etc.) which is fired before BMS shutdown will close this relay and shut down the alternator in time before the BMS does, possibly even preventing the BMS from doing the shutdown.
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There is certainly some elegance in the relative ‘simplicity’ of your system.
Do you have any realtime monitoring of your alternator temperature? (I appreciate that the Balmar programming allows for the Balmar to turn off the alternator when the Balmar detects a temperature greater than the user set threshold; but, the Balmar has no reporting functionality & the user takes it on faith that the alternator temps are remaining in a safe range…)
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23-12-2024, 19:54
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbigel
Agree 100%. this is an issue. I attempt to address this issue by overriding my SOC% relay and forcing a full 100% charge program to allow for top balancing time. I try to do this every 3 months.
My goal is mainly to prevent damage and increase lifespan by not overcharging. I can accept knowing that the SOC% is an approximation. At worst I am undercharged sometimes, but LFP likes that fine. Right?
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Right undercharged that's better with alternator.
Why not just cut with cell voltage at 3.4V?
And let solar do the absorption till 100% SOC. That's what I do and works well.
14.5V is a bit high or do your cells/BMS require that?
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24-12-2024, 13:16
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Diego
Boat: Shannon 50 Ketch
Posts: 744
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
Right undercharged that's better with alternator.
Why not just cut with cell voltage at 3.4V?
And let solar do the absorption till 100% SOC. That's what I do and works well.
14.5V is a bit high or do your cells/BMS require that?
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The BMS requires 14.5v (3.6v/cell) to begin top balancing.
Re Solar: since my bank is very large (1200ah) and my solar capacity is a minuscule 360watts, I never worry about Solar putting me up near the 100% threshold - not going to happen.
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24-12-2024, 13:21
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Diego
Boat: Shannon 50 Ketch
Posts: 744
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
There is certainly some elegance in the relative ‘simplicity’ of your system.
Do you have any realtime monitoring of your alternator temperature? (I appreciate that the Balmar programming allows for the Balmar to turn off the alternator when the Balmar detects a temperature greater than the user set threshold; but, the Balmar has no reporting functionality & the user takes it on faith that the alternator temps are remaining in a safe range…)
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I have a temp sensor connected to the alternator, wired to display on the Cerbo. I manually monitor this temperature. I have never seen the alt go about 170F, even at the equator after operating 4+ hours, which is well below its stated high end limit.
I do use "belt saver" to limit field strength output to 80% just as an extra precaution, in addition to the temp overage limits.
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24-12-2024, 13:30
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Boat: Nordic Tug 37
Posts: 150
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Thank you Jordan.
I appreciate your clarification.
It may be that using the Cerbo GX’s control functions could be a viable alternative to the Zeus or Wakespeed.
This opens up a few alternatives I hadn’t considered.
-evan
__________________
MV TUGAWAY
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24-12-2024, 15:11
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbigel
The BMS requires 14.5v (3.6v/cell) to begin top balancing.
Re Solar: since my bank is very large (1200ah) and my solar capacity is a minuscule 360watts, I never worry about Solar putting me up near the 100% threshold - not going to happen.
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With alternator till 3.4V which is 99% and then absorption till 3.6V or 14.5V the last 5AH with solar, 360w is more then enough for that. So alternator does till 13.6V cut off. Solar absorption to 14.5V 30min and float 13.4V.
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24-12-2024, 15:19
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
Thank you Jordan.
I appreciate your clarification.
It may be that using the Cerbo GX’s control functions could be a viable alternative to the Zeus or Wakespeed.
This opens up a few alternatives I hadn’t considered.
-evan
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Yes you definitely need a temp sensor on the alternator. 100 degrees celcius case temp is optimal as limit for most alternator, running it lower just wastes charge and higher you start stressing it unless it's one with a high temp isolation lacquer, this you can run till 130 degrees celcius case temp.
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01-01-2025, 11:25
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Boat: Nordic Tug 37
Posts: 150
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Hi again Jordan…
How do you configure the Cerbo GX alternator settings to maintain house loads once you have achieved a ‘full charge” & the alternator is no longer in charging mode?
-evan
__________________
MV TUGAWAY
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02-01-2025, 07:51
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbigel
I have a temp sensor connected to the alternator, wired to display on the Cerbo. I manually monitor this temperature. I have never seen the alt go about 170F, even at the equator after operating 4+ hours, which is well below its stated high end limit.
I do use "belt saver" to limit field strength output to 80% just as an extra precaution, in addition to the temp overage limits.
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Do you only have a temp sensor connected to the cerbo, non to the balmar?
If so the balmar is missing crucial informations to do the regulation right. It needs also a temp sensor to be able protect the alternator and to define what is 80% of full output.
It's OK to be cautious with the alternator but you also shouldn't waste charge when you need it. And the Balmar only know what's the limits when he has voltage, Current and temp control.
I assume you have cerbo temp sensor that programmed via a relay to cut charge if temp gets too hot.
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02-01-2025, 08:02
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lifeaboard
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40
Posts: 4,312
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
Hi again Jordan…
How do you configure the Cerbo GX alternator settings to maintain house loads once you have achieved a ‘full charge” & the alternator is no longer in charging mode?
-evan
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Evan the cerbo has no dedicated alternator functions.
The only thing you can do is connect a relay and use node red to program that the relay should shut of at eg 13.6V and re-engage if below 13.4V.
There is no function that maintains house load from the alternator.
And it's also bad for the lifepo4 as that would mean you keep it the whole time at 100% SOC while you motor.
The best for your lifepo4 is when you cut the alternator at 13.6V and re-engage if 13.3V is reached means battery discharged to around 80-85%SOC.
You can Alternatively just use the relay which I use for years in installs to cut an internally temp regulated alternator at 13.6V and re-engage at 13.4V. It has 20A relay so you can also cut 2 alternators the sense or field or and ignition wire or whatever the alternator you use need to cut charge if you have a cat. The oldest one is 6 years and still works flawlessly and I have it on my cat too. Order for this price right away 3 and fit one with eg Deutsch connector and in case it fails you replace it in less then 1min.
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/10050...%21ES%21%21ABX
I use the cerbo relays, which you can remote steer via VRM for more important tasks to be able to shut on/off shorepower charger, Multi, dehumidifier and 2 big bilge pumps so I can react from remote manually when not on the ship.
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02-01-2025, 10:22
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Boat: Nordic Tug 37
Posts: 150
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
Evan the cerbo has no dedicated alternator functions.
The only thing you can do is connect a relay and use node red to program that the relay should shut of at eg 13.6V and re-engage if below 13.4V.
There is no function that maintains house load from the alternator.
And it's also bad for the lifepo4 as that would mean you keep it the whole time at 100% SOC while you motor.
The best for your lifepo4 is when you cut the alternator at 13.6V and re-engage if 13.3V is reached means battery discharged to around 80-85%SOC.
You can Alternatively just use the relay which I use for years in installs to cut an internally temp regulated alternator at 13.6V and re-engage at 13.4V. It has 20A relay so you can also cut 2 alternators the sense or field or and ignition wire or whatever the alternator you use need to cut charge if you have a cat. The oldest one is 6 years and still works flawlessly and I have it on my cat too. Order for this price right away 3 and fit one with eg Deutsch connector and in case it fails you replace it in less then 1min.
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/10050...%21ES%21%21ABX
I use the cerbo relays, which you can remote steer via VRM for more important tasks to be able to shut on/off shorepower charger, Multi, dehumidifier and 2 big bilge pumps so I can react from remote manually when not on the ship.
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Thanks for the explanation re house loads. This makes reasonable sense with the ability to override the relay settings when anticipating the need for arrival at an anchorage with a higher SOC.
I currently use the Boat Command app to monitor the boat remotely but the Cerbo based VRM would be much more versatile.
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12-01-2025, 15:40
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland, NZ
Boat: Hood 38 - Wauquiez
Posts: 764
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
I just wanted to add my experience with Arco Zeus brought through the YachtRigger (Mike) in Florida.
The merits and features in the Zeus are well documented - and it works brilliantly with my Victron gear and Raymarine Axiom plotter (with full Victron app on the Axiom).
If that wasn't enough when I recently had to contact support a day our from Christmas through the Arco Zeus support community I got gold star service from both the Yacht Rigger and Arco themselves.
They responded (even at the weekend) between the holidays of Christmas and New Year. All my issues were resolved quickly and they took my phone calls etc.
Having a great product is one thing - have great support is another thing, and makes the premium price worth it.
My 0.02c worth.
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03-02-2025, 13:51
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Diego
Boat: Shannon 50 Ketch
Posts: 744
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet
Do you only have a temp sensor connected to the cerbo, non to the balmar?
If so the balmar is missing crucial informations to do the regulation right. It needs also a temp sensor to be able protect the alternator and to define what is 80% of full output.
It's OK to be cautious with the alternator but you also shouldn't waste charge when you need it. And the Balmar only know what's the limits when he has voltage, Current and temp control.
I assume you have cerbo temp sensor that programmed via a relay to cut charge if temp gets too hot.
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Meanwhile, a month later I noticed this query.
I have 2 different temp sensors on the alternator - one goes to the Balmar voltage regulator and that is used by the Balmar to regulate field current and thus throttle back the alternator when it gets too hot, and a second temp sensor which goes to the Cerbo strictly for display purposes so I can monitor the temp, this second temp sensor does not in any way control or manage the alternator.
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03-02-2025, 13:56
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Diego
Boat: Shannon 50 Ketch
Posts: 744
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
Hi again Jordan…
How do you configure the Cerbo GX alternator settings to maintain house loads once you have achieved a ‘full charge” & the alternator is no longer in charging mode?
-evan
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There is no "maintain house loads" - once we reach the target SOC% the alternator is no longer charging and the batteries supply all the power needed by the house until the trigger SOC% is reached and the alternator comes back on.
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03-02-2025, 14:07
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#90
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Moderator

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 35,307
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Re: The external regulator we've all been waiting for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanbigel
There is no "maintain house loads" - once we reach the target SOC% the alternator is no longer charging and the batteries supply all the power needed by the house until the trigger SOC% is reached and the alternator comes back on.
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If the regulator is programmed to support a float level voltage which is higher than the open circuit voltage of the battery bank, then the alternator will indeed support house loads, no?
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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