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Old 15-02-2022, 07:12   #61
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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My working assumption is that electrical standards have not been observed when shore power was installed in a any given Marina and therefore it is up to the user to protect himself.
Funny isnt it , the working assumption by marinas electricians and national codes is that boats are wired like a crock of Sh1t and the shoreside system needs to be wired accordingly . The code here is considering mandatory isolation transformers in the supply pillars !! ( the industry is dead set against that of course )
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Old 15-02-2022, 16:28   #62
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Funny isnt it , the working assumption by marinas electricians and national codes is that boats are wired like a crock of Sh1t and the shoreside system needs to be wired accordingly . The code here is considering mandatory isolation transformers in the supply pillars !! ( the industry is dead set against that of course )
Both assumptions are probably safe when applied to the general population, i.e. there are a lot of poorly wired boats AND marinas.
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Old 15-02-2022, 16:44   #63
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Euro 230v is single phase. U.S. 240v is not. They don't mix.


There are three ways to do this:


1. Buy a large battery charger (DC power source) which can eat U.S. power (either 110v single phase or 240v split phase, whatever), with a separate shore power inlet, then power your onboard gear through the inverter. It will get right voltage AND right frequency and everything will work, but within power limits of the inverter, which you might need to upgrade. You can cruise back into 230v/50hz waters whenever you like; just use the other shore power inlet. But you can't buy new appliances in the U.S. and just plug them in; you'll need to bring them from Europe.

...
You can buy 230/50 and 240/60 appliances online at a number of web sites for instance, https://www.eastwestintl.com/cate/22...use-only).html.

I have no idea if that particular site is legit or not. There are several of them with different names that all point to the same site.

Getting 230/50 appliances is much easier than it was.
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Old 15-02-2022, 16:47   #64
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Nice summary although I would note that some boats like my Mahe 36 are all wired with appropriate guage wire for 110V so you may not need to rewire. Even if you do have smaller wire you donít necessarily need to change it out unless you need the extra amps, just install appropriate sized circuit breakers which will be half what was there before.
I've placed an offer on a UK boat that is wired for 230/50, but the individual circuit wiring appears to be 2.5mm2. That's big enough to support 15 amp 120v circuits, but not 20 amp.
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Old 15-02-2022, 18:28   #65
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by bclaude View Post
All the potential issues related to reversed wires neutral/earth coming from shore power are eliminated with the use of a proper isolation transformer as the transformer eliminates the physical connection between the yacht and the marina mains mains. Thatís why they are call isolation transformers. This is why IMHO they are a key safety issue in general and particularly when connection to 220/240 in the US. My working assumption is that electrical standards have not been observed when shore power was installed in a any given Marina and therefore it is up to the user to protect himself.
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Old 15-02-2022, 19:45   #66
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
It would be more accurate to say that most of the world uses 50Hz at approximately 230v. The actual situation is pretty varied within limits. Attachment 242950
The curse of living on the bleeding edge of technology.

US was the leader and early systems were even lower voltage but they kept increasing it as they needed more range. By the time things settled around 110-120v, the cost to change to 230-240v would have been unreasonable. Other areas of the world were able to learn from this and jumped straight to the higher voltage which allows lower amperage and thus smaller less expensive cabling.

Of course, in all countries high power/long distance feeds run at much higher voltage and are stepped down.

To the original question: unless you are getting a heck of a deal such that you could pay to have the system professionally converted if you don't like it, I wouldn't muck about with it for a boat dedicated to N. American cruising.
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Old 15-02-2022, 19:50   #67
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Euro 230v is single phase. U.S. 240v is not. They don't mix.

Well I not sure about the US, but Canadian 240 volts outlets are single phase on both legs. That's what you have coming in to breaker panel from the transformer.


All dock side hook ups that I have seen are single phase whether 120 or 240 Volt.



Three phase is usually a commercial/industrial hook up with 120/208 V / 240 V / 480 V / 347/600 V using 3 or 4 wire.
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Old 15-02-2022, 21:28   #68
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

Short answer dangerous! When you Half your voltage you double your amperage and the existing wiring may not be able to handle the extra voltage and start to burn causing a fire! In addition our A/C current is at 60cycles where European I believe is 50 cycles. Even if you use a Boost converter an step up your dock voltage from 50amp at 110v to 220v you will only get a max of 25 amps before you blow the circuit breaker and Im not sure how your pumps and electronics will handle the Cycle difference? Remember (Watts/Volts = Amps or Volts X Amps = Watts)
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:57   #69
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
The curse of living on the bleeding edge of technology.

US was the leader and early systems were even lower voltage but they kept increasing it as they needed more range. By the time things settled around 110-120v, the cost to change to 230-240v would have been unreasonable. Other areas of the world were able to learn from this and jumped straight to the higher voltage which allows lower amperage and thus smaller less expensive cabling.

Of course, in all countries high power/long distance feeds run at much higher voltage and are stepped down.

To the original question: unless you are getting a heck of a deal such that you could pay to have the system professionally converted if you don't like it, I wouldn't muck about with it for a boat dedicated to N. American cruising.


Both Europe and US developed distributed mains power around the same time ( 1880s) Edison who was at the height of his influence convinced the US to use 110 VDC , Europe developed AC at 220VAC. Ultimately Edisonís route was shown to be misguided , and the US kept the same voltage switching over to AC.
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Old 16-02-2022, 07:58   #70
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by My_Breakaway View Post
Short answer dangerous! When you Half your voltage you double your amperage and the existing wiring may not be able to handle the extra voltage and start to burn causing a fire! In addition our A/C current is at 60cycles where European I believe is 50 cycles. Even if you use a Boost converter an step up your dock voltage from 50amp at 110v to 220v you will only get a max of 25 amps before you blow the circuit breaker and Im not sure how your pumps and electronics will handle the Cycle difference? Remember (Watts/Volts = Amps or Volts X Amps = Watts)


Like all mains applications. Itís only dangerous if you donít understand what you are doing. So if you donít stay well away.
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Old 16-02-2022, 17:07   #71
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Both Europe and US developed distributed mains power around the same time ( 1880s) Edison who was at the height of his influence convinced the US to use 110 VDC , Europe developed AC at 220VAC. Ultimately Edisonís route was shown to be misguided , and the US kept the same voltage switching over to AC.
Edison was focused on DC (Direct Current) power distribution.

Westinghouse (starting with Tesla but then leaving him in the ditch) was focused on AC (Alternating Current).

The War of Currents wasn't about voltage and Edison lost the War of Currents.
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Old 16-02-2022, 20:08   #72
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Edison was focused on DC (Direct Current) power distribution.



Westinghouse (starting with Tesla but then leaving him in the ditch) was focused on AC (Alternating Current).



The War of Currents wasn't about voltage and Edison lost the War of Currents.


The point is 110vac didnít arrive before 220VAC both continents largely rolled on electrification around the same time ,Edison argued that 220 was too dangerous and that 220 light bulbs were not as durable. Hence 110 DC In the USA
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Old 17-02-2022, 07:27   #73
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

Curiously, some of the highest voltage transmission lines in the world are dc. 1MV +/-. China and Canada being good examples of having to transport vast distances from generation to consumption.
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Old 17-02-2022, 15:47   #74
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Re: Would You Buy a European 220V Boat for Use North America

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Short answer dangerous! When you Half your voltage you double your amperage and the existing wiring may not be able to handle the extra voltage and start to burn causing a fire! In addition our A/C current is at 60cycles where European I believe is 50 cycles. Even if you use a Boost converter an step up your dock voltage from 50amp at 110v to 220v you will only get a max of 25 amps before you blow the circuit breaker and Im not sure how your pumps and electronics will handle the Cycle difference? Remember (Watts/Volts = Amps or Volts X Amps = Watts)
It's not clear what you're trying to say regarding the 25 amp breaker. If you double your voltage from the 50 amp breaker than "only" 25 amps delivers the identical amount of watts as the previous 50 amps. What's the downside there?
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