WIND GENERATOR

[AlvyLad]

By searching practical implications/solutions stumbled on YT
https://youtu.be/Osh1ljtgnSU

Good old Delos and Brian, explains it all in terms, I ("Laman") should understand.
5 years ago.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

By searching practical implications/solutions stumbled on YT
https://youtu.be/Osh1ljtgnSU

Good old Delos and Brian, explains it all in terms, I ("Laman") should understand.
5 years ago.

He touched on one major part that most dont want to admit.

Solar works about 8 hours a day. Wind works 24 hrs a day. In his 3 amp from wind example that = 72ah input from wind.
3 amps x 24 hrs = 72ah. That's not nothing . That is enough to support my boat for at least 2.5 days . Yes for those that use 2.5kwh a day no but they also have the real-estate to deploy 1.5 to 2 kW of solar.

[CaptainMarkS]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

We installed a Duogen wind turbine/water turbine 20 years ago. At the time, solar was not well advanced and still quite expensive. We had lead batteries.
Now, 20 years later, we have lithium batteries and considerably more solar panel area. Our 1.1m diameter turbine put out some reasonable power when the wind blew hard but all things considered, it's contribution was poor compared to solar. Over the years it needed parts. It did 6 Atlantic crossings.
We have recently removed it and won't go back to wind. With lithium batteries and solar, we get at least 20% more performance from the solar than we did with lead batteries and their long absorption period.
Wind turbines are seen less and less on boats. For me, they are a thing of the past. Solar is so cheap, maintenance free, quiet and efficient

I’m with Wandering1. We swapped out our 75 lb D400 for solar and never looked back. Granted, we don’t do high latitude sailing. Regardless, solar weighs less per watt produced and requires far less maintenance.

[AlvyLad]

Originally Posted by newhaul

He touched on one major part that most dont want to admit.

Solar works about 8 hours a day. Wind works 24 hrs a day. In his 3 amp from wind example that = 72ah input from wind.
3 amps x 24 hrs = 72ah. That's not nothing .

That would certainly be enough to run all systems on minimalistic boat alone for sure.
wind "back in the game" again... except for those no sun, no wind days still meaning running the engine (if not an outboard) or a genny or have silly amounts of batteries...
(I'm thinking/searching for a "solution", as in for my lightweight tri to use as a cruiser), that in (ignoring the costs) would make it (whole system) just too much in weight alone.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by newhaul

He touched on one major part that most dont want to admit.

Solar works about 8 hours a day. Wind works 24 hrs a day. In his 3 amp from wind example that = 72ah input from wind.
3 amps x 24 hrs = 72ah. That's not nothing . That is enough to support my boat for at least 2.5 days . Yes for those that use 2.5kwh a day no but they also have the real-estate to deploy 1.5 to 2 kW of solar.

Nobody claimed wind doesn't produce any energy. It is just a question of energy vs upfront cost vs maintenance.

He also pointed out wind produces maybe 10% of their total energy consumption. So what would happen if they didn't have a wind turbine? Well one option would be 10% more solar. The other would be they run genny or alternator slightly more often than they do now. Neither is a show stopper.

In fact their new boat despite adding hybrid propulsion and thus even higher electrical needs has 60%+ more solar and no wind generator.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

(I'm thinking/searching for a "solution", as in for my lightweight tri to use as a cruiser), that in (ignoring the costs) would make it (whole system) just too much in weight alone.

Would it though? Do you have some extreme unusual power requirements?

LFP batteries, a modest amount of solar, high output alternator. How is that either too much weight or cost? We are living in the golden age in terms of power generation and storage on cruising boats. What is possible today wasn't 20 years ago even at extreme cost.

[AlvyLad]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Would it though? Do you have some extreme unusual power requirements?

LFP batteries, a modest amount of solar, high output alternator. How is that either too much weight or cost?

Tris I'm looking at- most are outboards, meaning + separate gen and/or instead of (12V) 100A LPO battery (+ inverter, + MPPTA), would need at least 200, better 400Ah batteries.... then ad ~£1300 wind turbine, suddenly it's a expensive and heavy set up. On a positive, in such case possible to rid of gas cooker...

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

That would certainly be enough to run all systems on minimalistic boat alone for sure.
wind "back in the game" again... except for those no sun, no wind days still meaning running the engine (if not an outboard) or a genny or have silly amounts of batteries...
(I'm thinking/searching for a "solution", as in for my lightweight tri to use as a cruiser), that in (ignoring the costs) would make it (whole system) just too much in weight alone.

Actually not really . On installs I used to do I recommended 3x daily power usage in battery capacity. I'm a weird case my usage is 35 to 40 ah a day (13.5v) but my bank ( diy ) 250ah. Cost negligable over 200ah cells .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

Tris I'm looking at- most are outboards, meaning + separate gen and/or instead of (12V) 100A LPO battery (+ inverter, + MPPTA), would need at least 200, better 400Ah batteries.... then ad ~£1300 wind turbine, suddenly it's a expensive and heavy set up. On a positive, in such case possible to rid of gas cooker...

My last trimeran was a 32 ft homebuilt crowther custom design and I could have easily put 2+kW of solar without even using an arch . Wind would have been of little value then . Still only used about 35ah . Had a BMW D12 inboard . With 50 amp alternator. Running 2 8D fla batteries . LiFePo was still a future dream back then .
Used a generator for charging.
Couldn't afford a wind or solar setup .

[AlvyLad]

Originally Posted by newhaul

My last trimeran was a 32 ft homebuilt crowther custom design and I could have easily put 2+kW of solar without even using an arch . Wind would have been of little value then . Still only used about 35ah . Had a BMW D12 inboard . With 50 amp alternator. Running 2 8D fla batteries . LiFePo was still a future dream back then .
Used a generator for charging.
Couldn't afford a wind or solar setup .

IF I'll get Contour 34 or corsair 36- yes, can have more of an solar, but it very much looks like corsair 31- with minimal space for.
Generation (alternator) is onboard engined 34 and 36... that's hardly going to work out, so in along the lines of Corsair 31, that will mean portable genny (+), crucially my intension is to chill in Med, with no illusion- I'll need to pop in to marinas, foldable only variants are under consideration, but to load them up exceeding recommended payload of 550kg would mean tri losing it's purpose for occasional to-from return to UK at reasonable pace and safely in occasionally (and hardly predictable) big seas.

On a subject of validity of Wind genny's- sort off makes sense, but redundancy for everything becomes bit much past the point, that it's a burden

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by newhaul

He touched on one major part that most dont want to admit.

Solar works about 8 hours a day. Wind works 24 hrs a day. In his 3 amp from wind example that = 72ah input from wind.
3 amps x 24 hrs = 72ah. That's not nothing . That is enough to support my boat for at least 2.5 days . Yes for those that use 2.5kwh a day no but they also have the real-estate to deploy 1.5 to 2 kW of solar.

I guess solar works differently depending on where you are. In the Caribbean we get circa 12 hours sunlight pretty much all year round. With tilting panels, you can get maybe 10 or 11 hours of useful power if you want to tilt to maximise the power. Horizontal panels probably only manage 8 hours of useful power, as you say.
In the UK, in the height of summer, we get a 15 hour day. The reduce solar performance is often offset by the longer day. Solar works surprisingly well. In the winter, solar is pretty useless in the UK but wind has it problems as well. It would be a rare thing to see anybody cruising in thre UK in winter. Most boats are laid up for the winter. Few people leave a turbine unattended on their boat as UK winters can be very windy. A 100mph was recorded around the coast on several occasions last winter. I have seen numerous destroyed wind turbines in boats over the years in the UK.

[AlvyLad]

Not a "proper marine designated"
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202350747932
nor completely Chinese (might as well be made in China), but labelled in Germany, certainly cheap, certainly big,
anyone could explain to a n00b, what are realistic expectations could be placed on this wind genny?

Also, power wiring and system management (something even I can understand) voltage:
Would it big deal to build whole system in ie 24V ? I mean inverters in to 240V or even transformers back to 12 V for components that wouldn't be available in 24V, instead of "normal" 12V in order so save on cabling and losses (increased Amperage)= equal power. Things like navionics, radars, even lights etc?

[ZekeB]

Ok, this should end all of the wind vs. solar debates.

A single windmill will not create as much power as a typical solar setup (over time). Let's accept the estimates of 1/10th the output. So we deploy not just 1 windmill, but 10! Yes, that is a lot of money to lay out, but let's put that aside for now. I have a couple modifications that will increase your payback.

How can you deploy 10, without interfering with each other, or taking up deck space. Easy. Each (vertical) windmill is attached to the top of a bouy. Two poles forming a horizontal "V", will secure it on the boat's perimeter, and support the wires coming off it.

It won't fall over, because below the buoy, hangs a water turbine. More power! [insert Tim Allen grunts] No sun, no wind, maybe there's current? But wait, there's more...

Little deck space? No problem. The blades of the windmill, have integrated solar panels. Not a new idea, and a quick search came up with a few startups looking to market them.

I thought about adding a burr grinder at the bottom of the rotating shaft for that fresh bean grind in the morning, but wasn't sure if there'd be enough interest in that. Or would there?

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

Not a "proper marine designated"
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202350747932
nor completely Chinese (might as well be made in China), but labelled in Germany, certainly cheap, certainly big,
anyone could explain to a n00b, what are realistic expectations could be placed on this wind genny?

At 6 knots it will produce about 10W and at 10 knots about 40W. Unless you spend most of your time in gale force winds it will never get in the ballpark of 400W.

https://www.altinelenerji.net/perfor...ance-chart.pdf

Also, power wiring and system management (something even I can understand) voltage:
Would it big deal to build whole system in ie 24V ? I mean inverters in to 240V or even transformers back to 12 V for components that wouldn't be available in 24V, instead of "normal" 12V in order so save on cabling and losses (increased Amperage)= equal power. Things like navionics, radars, even lights etc?

Not sure what you mean by "the whole system". You mean rewire your boat to make is 24V? Sure you can that is a lot of work. If you mean using a 24V generator and then converting that to 12V well there will be losses in the conversion likely more than the gains of going with 24V instead of 12V.

[AlvyLad]

Originally Posted by Statistical

At 6 knots it will produce about 10W and at 10 knots about 40W. Unless you spend most of your time in gale force winds it will never get in the ballpark of 400W.

https://www.altinelenerji.net/perfor...ance-chart.pdf



Not sure what you mean by "the whole system". You mean rewire your boat to make is 24V? Sure you can that is a lot of work. If you mean using a 24V generator and then converting that to 12V well there will be losses in the conversion likely more than the gains of going with 24V instead of 12V.

TY!
I meant solar, wind gen and storage in 24V, would leave chartplotter, pilot, inverter (to 230V) etc etc to find in 24V or... convert (transformer) in to 12V each...
(wiring- no, no need for, as 12V would be already too "beefy" to power 1 to 1 power consumption devices in 12v 10A (120 watts)= 24V 5A (120 Watts) P(W) = V(V) × I(A) )
...which answers the question itself, meaning, unless I'd be prepared to rebuild (replace) everything or to use 24-12v transformer each... so any gains in 24, instead of 12v storage/generation would be equal (+ or - ) to loss, but unnecessarily bigger set up.
(perfectly clear in my head, only hope it does make sense the same to you too? )