WIND GENERATOR

[AlvyLad]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

It's best to look at the performance graphs of output vs wind speed for the area you sail in. Then allow a factor for the time the turbine isn't pointing into the wind. The wind rarely blows perfectly from one direction, so the turbine oscillates back and forward, over compensating for the new wind direction. This has a big impact on output on small turbines located in positions with obstacles upwind that change the wind direction. A turbine mounted at the top of a mizzen mast would get far cleaner, stronger wind than one mounted on a pole at deck level.
All things considered, you rarely get the output from the manufacturers chart as your wind turbine isn't mounted in a wind tunnel under laboratory conditions.
We found that in the perfect windiest conditions we could get about 1kwh of output per day from 1.1 metre diameter turbine. This was with the boat anchored behind a reef in the Trades where the wind direction was reasonable constant both in direction and strength.
Most of the time, in normal anchorages, it's contribution was so woeful, it's wasn't worth putting up with the noise so we would just tie it off and rely on the solar to make 3 or 4kwh per day

Fair enough!
I'm only asking, for the sake of "redundancy", let's say few days rain or cloudy or on a passage... obviously depends where abouts etc etc.

also, I was under impression, those vertical/spiral ones are wind direction change imune... and IE is quitter, would do the job of topping up of batteries at night, whilst asleep...
ANW, good to know, that they are what they are from first hand experience

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

Fair enough!
I'm only asking, for the sake of "redundancy", let's say few days rain or cloudy or on a passage... obviously depends where abouts etc etc.

also, I was under impression, those vertical/spiral ones are wind direction change imune... and IE is quitter, would do the job of topping up of batteries at night, whilst asleep...
ANW, good to know, that they are what they are from first hand experience

The small vertical wind turbines are just trickle chargers. Their output is negligable. Output is proportional to swept volume. The large the turbine, the more is can potentially generate.

[coopec43]

Have you see this Sail Magazine article?

Know how: Wind Generators

• By Sam Fortescue

• November 17, 2017

https://sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-wind-generators/

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Have you see this Sail Magazine article?

Know how: Wind Generators

• By Sam Fortescue

• November 17, 2017

https://sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-wind-generators/

That article was published in 2017. I would say from my experience, lithium has exploded in popularity and wind turbine use has diminished in a similar proportion.
Many wind turbines don't have a suitable regulator for use with lithium. Even if they do, wind turbines are expensive compared to solar. Look at cheap Chinese framed panels compared to cheap Chinese wind turbines and I would take the solar panels every time

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

That article was published in 2017. I would say from my experience, lithium has exploded in popularity and wind turbine use has diminished in a similar proportion.
Many wind turbines don't have a suitable regulator for use with lithium. Even if they do, wind turbines are expensive compared to solar. Look at cheap Chinese framed panels compared to cheap Chinese wind turbines and I would take the solar panels every time

Maybe? But if you were sailing in the Southern Ocean?

In high-latitude regions, both solar and wind power have their advantages and disadvantages. Wind power is generally more consistent at high latitudes, with higher average wind speeds, making it a reliable source of energy throughout the year. Solar power, however, is highly seasonal, with long periods of darkness during winter and long periods of sunlight during summer.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

The small vertical wind turbines are just trickle chargers. Their output is negligable. Output is proportional to swept volume. The large the turbine, the more is can potentially generate.

No one else has really mentioned the fact that power is based on how big the actual turbine is. It doesn't matter (as much) if blades on a horizontal axis or that vertical axis arrangement. The size of the turbine blade is proportional to the amount of power you can get out of the wind generator.

There are three wind velocities of importance:
The required wind velocity required for the unit to start producing power.
The wind velocity where the unit produces it's maximum power
The wind velocity where the unit stops producing power

The power output curve between those three points is what you really need to know in order to determine how the wind vane will perform over what range of wind velocities.

Then, you need to know what wind speeds you will be generally experiencing. This last one is really difficult to determine on a sailboat.

For land based installations, we used to put up several small anemometers at potential locations on a given property and let them run for a year, monitoring their output in terms of wind velocities and energy usage demands.

A simple example was a location on the side of a mountain for a house that was way off grid. The biggest energy needs were in the winter for heating. There was a lesser need in the summer for cooling. There was a location on the property that tended to funnel winds in the winter due to the topography at a specific height. We put up a high speed three blade horizontal axis wind generator there that worked great in the winter and produced enough energy for the heat load.

In the summer, there was another location that got a fairly consistent thermal rising out of the valley providing a low speed wind during most to the summer months. There we put in a Savonius rotor - a vertical axis type wind generator that ran great in those wind speeds providing enough energy for summer cooling.

Neither wind generator would have provided enough energy during all seasons...

dj

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by AlvyLad

Fair enough!
I'm only asking, for the sake of "redundancy", let's say few days rain or cloudy or on a passage... obviously depends where abouts etc etc.

also, I was under impression, those vertical/spiral ones are wind direction change imune... and IE is quitter, would do the job of topping up of batteries at night, whilst asleep...
ANW, good to know, that they are what they are from first hand experience

We installed an Air-X marine back in 2008 or so as a back up. Sailing to Mexico from Vancouver in October 2009, the wind generator was super useful. The solar panels were shaded by the sails at that time of year because the sun was low on the horizon, but we had enough wind 24h/d to keep the batteries (AGM) from going below 60%. Ditto on cloudy days in Mexico where we eventually added more solar panels but even then, the wind generator would run overnight and "help". The sound at night was comforting. Others in the anchorage would probably disagree.

The panels were more important than the wind generator crossing to French Polynesia from Mexico but again with relatively short days and enough wind from behind, the wind generator was still useful, particularly at night.

It stopped working last year but with newer higher output solar panels installed at the same time, we don't miss it. I'm not likely to replace it and unless its an easy fix, getting it off the back of the boat will create some space.

[MicHughV]

Ha, this will likely age me, but back in the day I had the venerable "windbugger"
Mine was the two blade variety, which I hoisted up in the foretriangle when I was anchored. The prop was easily 4' long.
It pumped out a lot of amps for sure, but you could hear the thing a mile away.
When the wind direction changed it would shiver and shake for a period of time.

In order to keep the beer cold, I put up with it for a number of years, but eventually the magnets came unglued from the inside of the housing.

By this time, the "windbugger" was no longer being made. I tried gluing the magnets back myself, but was unsuccessful in this operation.

It was a beast, but it worked quite well, and was quite reliable for a number of years.

[coopec43]

There are a number of wind generators these days which are being marketed as "silent".

This guy bought a "SilentWind" and seems happy with it.

"We chose for the SilentWind for its light weight, low noise, the power in also the high range, and the low maintenance."

https://fossilfreearoundtheworld.org...ne-comparison/

[dlj]

Originally Posted by coopec43

There are a number of wind generators these days which are being marketed as "silent".

This guy bought a "SilentWind" and seems happy with it.

"We chose for the SilentWind for its light weight, low noise, the power in also the high range, and the low maintenance."

https://fossilfreearoundtheworld.org...ne-comparison/

That is the wind generator that I posted about above. I will say that it is very quiet when running. Certainly not silent, but very unobtrusive.

dj

[GordMay]

Wind Turbine Comparison:
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/galler...r&imageuser=79

[rognvald]

We ditched our Ampair 100 model in 2005. Well made, simple, but unless you have a steady 15 plus knot wind, the most you'll get is 25-40 amp hours per day. For us, it was not worth it for the windage and added weight. Most sailors report solar is the best.
Rognvald

[hpeer]

Our old 6 blade generator is similar to a D400. It is a very simple design, no breaks or the like. It is rather large and quite quiet.

We also have a bit over 800 watts of solar going into 4 GC batteries, 13VDC. Our solar sits well back behind the main and has relatively little shading, the wind gen and radar being the culprits. Typically solar charges our batteries nicely.

The wind gen is a secondary source for when there is little sun. As we are in the Caribbean there is often adequate wind to assist in the charging routine, it keeps the batteries up over night.

VERY roughly out charging profile is:
40 knots 40 amps
20 knots 10 amps
10 knots 2-1/2 amps

I think this kind of profile is typical for a wind gen.

Above 40 knots and it should be secured. Around 70 knots the blades will come off.

When we were stateside the wind generator was almost worthless. There was very seldom enough wind to make power. And that will be pretty typical, land quickly diminishes wind. Where a wind gen makes sense is open ocean or among exposed oceanic islands. Nothing to do with design, although some are more wuiet and efficient than others, no wind no power.

[AlvyLad]

Yeh, sort off outdated, not developed enough technology it seems, purely from engineering perspective would be good to learn from (for anyone else) that would try them new- cheap ones, that would indicate what really is performance/graphs etc on those new- "permanent magnet" or different configuration blades or other gimmicks, that either work, be it occasionally ( as an additional power source) or not

[MicHughV]

Well, solar panels need sunlight to operate, so for 10-12 hours a day they don't produce anything. The panels don't like shade of any sort falling on them nor will they produce anything during rain, cloudy skies, etc.
Wind generators need to wind to operate, so while they might have shortcomings, they will operate at night, in the rain and during cloudy skies..
The best of both worlds is to have both methinks.