Why did you buy golf cart batteries when they were so inferior.

[OldManMirage]

I like my DVD player.

To be fair, I still like CD's too. At least in my vehicles. Just so easy to pop in and out.

On the boat I do use my phone and a bluetooth speaker.

[Mike OReilly]

Reflecting on all that has been said here, and on some other lithium threads, I actually find myself shifting away from moving in the new direction. I like nice, new shinny things as much as the next fellow, but I’m not seeing a great advantage for my cruising lifestyle if I were to make the shift to lithium.

• My current lead-acid bank has performed exceedingly well as I enter the ninth year with them.
• Corollary: they are very cheap.
• I know my power needs. I don’t need more.
• My charging systems are perfectly set up for lead-acid.
• Weight is irrelevant on my boat.
• Added to this, it’s easy to get good quality lead-acid locally. Lithium… not so much.

So why would I switch?

Another wrinkle for folks like me is the northern clime, and managing batteries over the long-cold winter. Right now all I have to do is leave my lead-acid fully charged in the fall. I disconnected the leads, and they sit happily through six months of winter. With lithium, I have to take them out; coddle and keep them happy. This is certainlyu not conducive to where and how I cruise.

As I said, I think lithium is a better battery overal, but I just don’t see a compelling reason to make the switch — for me.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by OldManMirage

I like my DVD player.

To be fair, I still like CD's too. At least in my vehicles. Just so easy to pop in and out.

On the boat I do use my phone and a bluetooth speaker.

how about you collection of 8 tracks and paper novels?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Reflecting on all that has been said here, and on some other lithium threads, I actually find myself shifting away from moving in the new direction. I like nice, new shinny things as much as the next fellow, but I’m not seeing a great advantage for my cruising lifestyle if I were to make the shift to lithium.

• My current lead-acid bank has performed exceedingly well as I enter the ninth year with them.
• Corollary: they are very cheap.
• I know my power needs. I don’t need more.
• My charging systems are perfectly set up for lead-acid.
• Weight is irrelevant on my boat.
• Added to this, it’s easy to get good quality lead-acid locally. Lithium… not so much.

So why would I switch?

Another wrinkle for folks like me is the northern clime, and managing batteries over the long-cold winter. Right now all I have to do is leave my lead-acid fully charged in the fall. I disconnected the leads, and they sit happily through six months of winter. With lithium, I have to take them out; coddle and keep them happy. This is certainlyu not conducive to where and how I cruise.

As I said, I think lithium is a better battery overal, but I just don’t see a compelling reason to make the switch — for me.

I have a friend who's been a reasonably well known technical advisor for one of the marine engine manufacturers for years. He's an expert to whom other experts go to (albeit on engines, though he's solid on electrical stuff too). On his personal boat, he's in the same place as you are Mike - only difference would be he's big on large frame Leece-Neville alternators. His power needs are modest and he has a decent place for his batteries. He's in Southern California which is a great climate for lead batteries - not too hot, not too cold.

With exception of a few very early adopters, the business case for LFP has always been an opportunistic one: Consider making a change when the old batteries die; or usage demands encourage it. With decline in price of LFP and increase of FLA, the business case is easier than ever to make.

There are a few nuances to running LFP that do not get a lot of airtime. Usually means running a high-output alternator and external regulator. Sure, there's a financial cost to it, but I found it a bit finnecky to dial-in. Sizing of cable is super important to avoid voltage drop. Once setup its a nice system, but it's not a drop-in, at least it wasn't for me. And then there are the box-of-parts you end up with Victron controls for solar/etc....

Would I do it again? Yes, but I'd think about it more. One recent development is since I'm in southern Mexico these days headed to Panama, my engine room temps are pretty dang high - 115F isn't uncommon. This plays hell on my engine start batter, the only battery remaining in the engine room. My old house bank of six 6V golf carts was in the engine room and I don't think they'd survive more than two years......maybe, even with weekly watering. A decent part of my decision to go LFP was to reclaim valuable space in my engine room - were it not for that (and recent knowledge of how heat affects batteries), I might not have gone LFP but rather remained with Golf Carts. Simple and easily available anywhere I'll be in the next couple years as I slowly work my way to Florida from Panama.

Mike, at 9-years, your batteries owe you nothing. The time is nearing that you'll have to make a replacement. I'll be curious the direction you take -

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Mike, at 9-years, your batteries owe you nothing. The time is nearing that you'll have to make a replacement. I'll be curious the direction you take -

Yes… me too . And thanks for the reasoned response based on actual experience, sans any hype. It’s why I’m here.

My batteries are nearing their end, which is why I’m educating myself on lithium. I kinda thought it would be a no-brainer to make the switch, but the more I learn, the less certain I am. There are lots of individual factors in my case, most of which I listed, but it’s certainly not a clear-cut case of one being superior to the other — for my needs.

Interesting…

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My batteries are nearing their end, which is why I’m educating myself on lithium. I kinda thought it would be a no-brainer to make the switch, but the more I learn, the less certain I am.

we know nothing about your electrical, but there may be nothing really needed

I did a thread when I installed mine maybe you can look at. It differs in that unlike most LFP install threads mine isn't a science project

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

we know nothing about your electrical, but there may be nothing really needed

I did a thread when I installed mine maybe you can look at. It differs in that unlike most LFP install threads mine isn't a science project

Yes, I do recall that from a while ago now. I’d likely follow your lead if/when I make the switch. It’s clearly in my future at some point. I’m just hoping I can eek a couple more seasons out of my existing FLA bank. At the rate the lithium world is improving, it should be even cheaper, and easier, to make the switch by then.

… Of course, by then the ‘next great battery development’ will probably be on the rise.

[sailorboy1]

I amount you may save be waiting is probably less than the plus of replacing your batteries on your own schedule instead of theirs.

There are dropins now days less than $300/100ah that have BMS, bluetooth, and low temperature protection

[emilecantin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes… me too . And thanks for the reasoned response based on actual experience, sans any hype. It’s why I’m here.

My batteries are nearing their end, which is why I’m educating myself on lithium. I kinda thought it would be a no-brainer to make the switch, but the more I learn, the less certain I am. There are lots of individual factors in my case, most of which I listed, but it’s certainly not a clear-cut case of one being superior to the other — for my needs.

Interesting…

Yeah, nobody in their right mind is suggesting ripping out a perfectly functional system to install LFP, unless your needs change drastically.

End-of-life of FLA batteries is a very good moment to evaluate the switch, and in the meantime, there are ways to future-proof your boat:
- Make sure all charge sources are programmable
- Make sure all wires have proper fusing (with enough AIC for lithium)
- Separate "charge" and "load" bus bars
- Ditch the "1-2-Both" switch and install a DC-DC charger if you need to transfer energy between house & starter banks

Once all that is done, switching to LFP can be pretty much "drop-in" and mostly involves re-programming the chargers and wiring the BMS.

My own experience regarding prices of cheap VS name-brand: I bought a Renogy 200Ah "drop-in" back in 2022 for 1300 CAD, and it's served me well cruising in the Bahamas. However, looks like the internal BMS didn't like winter; I followed all the instructions in the manual regarding storage, but it wouldn't get out of "cold temperature protection". To their credit, Renogy honoured the warranty and got me a full refund. In the meantime, prices for Victron LFP batteries had dropped by more than half and I just bought a 200Ah for about 1500CAD.

Before doing the switch to LFP, I had looked at just replacing my dying AGM, but it was over 1000 CAD, and probably wouldn't have lasted long due to my usage patterns at the time.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I amount you may save be waiting is probably less than the plus of replacing your batteries on your own schedule instead of theirs.

There are dropins now days less than $300/100ah that have BMS, bluetooth, and low temperature protection

these old batteries will have lost a lot of capacity and going lifepo4 on these smaller installations is definitely not a science project. I mean , they have to have lost capacity as people don’t change unless they are unsatisfied.

i suggested earlier that a 5 minute talk with you, would put them on the right track and save them another 3 months of possibly irrelevant forum questions… and perhaps also save them alot of money.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by koyote

I'm curious about your usage. I'm redoing an outboard powered (also curious about your 5hp) Catalina 27 for lower bay cruising and right now there's nothing but a $30 2amp shore power charger and 2 mostly dead dual use batteries. (the electric start on the outboard isn't even hooked up!)
some of the lights work, some don't. depth finder and a vhf. I'd like to get a small fridge on there (even if powered only half the time) and a bit more light, a tough book (or tablet) and the basic phone/tablet charging regime.

I know the bristol is a "bigger" little boat than the Catalina, but I'm curious what you have running for amp hours usage. I was planning to put on 200 watts (one flat and one movable), a decent charge controller, and a couple really decent LA batteries in that empty engine bay I have. (maybe hook up the starter, too)

we're out in the yeocomico right now, hoping to spend some anchor time in the bay and river systems and get away from the docks a bit until we get the tartan working.

If you are just cruising the Bay, you can probably get away with just using ice for the first few years. It can last 5 days or so in a decent cooler.

I've been doing that since 2011 when I brought the boat and brought it down here from just North of Tangier Island from a marina on the Eastern Shore.

As far as the 5 HP outboard, it works great, but I have it really deep. It has the 25" extra long shaft and is mounted on an adjustable bracket. I've also had it on the boat since 2011 after the diesel failed.

If you have to go directly into the waves though, it can be tough.

My first 4 sailboats were engineless, so that helps also. I rarely use the outboard once out into the Bay unless there is no wind, and I need to get someplace at a certain time.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, I do recall that from a while ago now. I’d likely follow your lead if/when I make the switch. It’s clearly in my future at some point. I’m just hoping I can eek a couple more seasons out of my existing FLA bank. At the rate the lithium world is improving, it should be even cheaper, and easier, to make the switch by then.

… Of course, by then the ‘next great battery development’ will probably be on the rise.

OT, but your post reminds me of an encounter I had as a TV repairman in the early '70's with a customer.
He was a doctor, obviously financially secure. He brought a 19'' black and white TV for me to fix, and it was obviously beyond being worth the repair.
When I suggested he replace it with a new color portable TV from my shop, he said he was, "going to wait for 3D color TV before purchasing a new set."
When I gently informed him that was a long way away and if he bought a new color TV now and enjoyed it until it finally died, 3D color TV might still be in the future.
Without any further discussion, he bought a new set from me and paid cash out of his wallet.

[koyote]

Originally Posted by thomm225

If you are just cruising the Bay, you can probably get away with just using ice for the first few years. It can last 5 days or so in a decent cooler.

I've been doing that since 2011 when I brought the boat and brought it down here from just North of Tangier Island from a marina on the Eastern Shore.

As far as the 5 HP outboard, it works great, but I have it really deep. It has the 25" extra long shaft and is mounted on an adjustable bracket. I've also had it on the boat since 2011 after the diesel failed....

On the Catalina 27, I've got the space to add plenty of insulation to the built in icebox. it's not an awful design that way. (the lid is iffy but I can do it) water tank and pumps were stripped out so I can plan whatever I want for that space.

currently running a 25 inch XL shaft Nissan/tohatsu 9.8 on an adjustable bracket (mounted to the rear of the outboard well on a plate) and it gets very deep. I hate how far back it is, but it clears the rudder. Nothing wrong with it but it's heavy and doesn't fit into he outboard well.

I have next to no electrical in there now, one of the "dual" purpose batteries is dead and the other is .. well, it work if it gets topped off every other day. So- dead. I guess I worry more about the cold than anything and I have no problem putting in a couple larger marine or golf cart batteries- again, no engine in that engine locker.

Maybe I'll go a bit smaller on the solar and see what I get out of it.

(edit- the only thing is, we're on the neck and getting ice is actually sometimes hard. also, have to navigate some 3 miles of the low wind creeks/rivers and super narrow channels, before we hit the Potomac- I have sculled one fork to the other with the rudder a few times out of need, a 6 horse would probably work, but I guess I have the 9,8 and it's not that awful once I balance it with a hundred feet on anchor chain up front )

[Fore and Aft]

So what is wrong with a cheap lithium battery. These 300AH Kings batteries can be purchased for less than a $1000 Australian. There's lots of online mostly positive reviews and they appear good value.
Sailorboy 1 I love my paperbacks. They don't go flat and I can tuck one in my bag or lunchbox (Esky) and not worry about it getting damaged.
Cheers
https://youtu.be/9w3U4jSNzek?si=e6aFLtdOlA7giHsR

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Sailorboy 1 I love my paperbacks. They don't go flat and I can tuck one in my bag or lunchbox (Esky) and not worry about it getting damaged.
Cheers

It is OK with me