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Old 19-01-2017, 06:02   #16
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
Hello all,

Our new-to-us Pearson 424's batteries are 12 years old, so it’s long overdue to replace them.

She currently has one large lead acid start battery:
(Interstate Workaholic 4D-XHD 1250 cranking amps http://www.interstatebatteries.com/p/interstate-batteries/interstate-batteries-4d-xhd-4d-xhd?dsNav=N~4294784989-4294784587-4294784586-2147384898-4294784585-2147384903-2147384903)
Hi Ryan,

Another comment, I have the same 30 year old W58 engine in my Pearson. Using a Duracell automotive group 27 starting battery for cranking and it works great. CA 1035. With my 67 year old back it's a whole lot easier to handle than a 4D.
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Old 19-01-2017, 08:02   #17
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

You might want to research LiFePo4 @ batteryspace.com
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Old 19-01-2017, 08:11   #18
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

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Originally Posted by bcboomer View Post
With a 150 amp alternator you should take advantage of the high acceptance rate of AGM batteries. Based on Nigel Calder's testing, the Firefly is the cheapest AGM on a cost per amp hr over its lifetime and will take some real abuse.

QED, Firefly.
Perhaps, but only if you can plug into shore power VERY regularly, or have plenty of solar, so that you bring the AGMs up to 100% between every use. My new-to-me boat is on a mooring and the relatively new AGMs did not seem to like the fact that I rarely topped off the batteries to 100%, even with 200amps of alternators at work. I'm replacing them with golf cart batteries for way more amp hours per dollar and more resistance to certain types of abuse. (Sure the AGMs will tolerate greater discharge but will not absolutely not tolerate incomplete charging on a regular basis.)

I think this is one of those cases where it's probably more useful to read old threads rather than ask people to restate their ideas. The most knowledgeable voices (like Mainesail) may be tired of rehashing the discussion at this point.
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Old 19-01-2017, 08:14   #19
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

I have had good luck with Interstate.
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Old 19-01-2017, 08:26   #20
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

I have a set of 4 Trojan T105 golf cart batteries that cost me $550. Prior to that I had a set of 4 Deka rebranded golf cart batteries that I abused for 5 years out on my mooring by leaving the frig on all the time. They still had life in them but I replaced because doing so on my schedule was better than waiting for theirs. It still only worked out to to $90/yr for their use.
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Old 19-01-2017, 08:37   #21
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaarrgh View Post
You might want to research LiFePo4 @ batteryspace.com
I have been following the discussions on the LiFePo batteries and so far my take is:

1. Done correctly they can offer several major advantages:
- the lowest cost per amp hour over the life of the battery
- fastest and shortest charge time IF you have the system to supply the amps they can take
- smaller, lighter installation for the same usable amp hours (emphasis on usable).

2. Disadvantages
- Very big upfront investment
- 95% certain you will also have to upgrade or modify your charging system.
- NOT plug and play. Big learning curve and require a significant investment in time to get them installed and working correctly.
- Screw up the install/setup and you have just trashed a very expensive set of batteries.

Any comments or further information on the above is of great interest.

Bottom line for me, and I do have a degree in electrical engineering, I'm just not willing to invest the time and hassle to deal with LiFePo at this time. Just seems to much work and too easy to make an expensive mistake. Then I'm also the guy that never buys version 1.0 of any software and waited several years to buy a flat panel TV. When the technology matures a little then I'll reconsider.
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Old 19-01-2017, 09:30   #22
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Ryan,

To answer your question more explicitly since I see you are also in New York, for my house bank I am going to be buying 6 of the Duracell Ultra 235aH Golf Cart batteries from Batteries + Bulbs for $129 each. I will pick them up from one of their locations in New Jersey. (https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sligc125)

Duracell is a reputable brand for Alkaline batteries but definitely less well known for 6V Golf Carts. I had them on my last boat for two years with no problems. I would love to hear more experiences or knowledge of the producer, but at that price I'm willing to give them another chance.

Good luck!
Jack
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Old 19-01-2017, 10:03   #23
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Jack,

Thanks for the local retailer. Good to see another Brooklyn sailor on here. I'll be keeping my boat at the Sheepshead Bay Yacht club once I bring her up from the Chesapeake in March.

I did some online digging this morning and printed a single-day Sam's Club "trial pass" online. As people have mentioned, they have great prices for these golf cart units ($80)... I'm going to stop in NJ on Saturday on the way down to the boat and buy 4 along with a new start battery. I'm considering going with a Duracell Group 27 Skipmac reccomended (only $100 at Sam's Club).

A new set of batteries for $468 seems like a solid deal.
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Old 19-01-2017, 10:17   #24
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
Jack,

Thanks for the local retailer. Good to see another Brooklyn sailor on here. I'll be keeping my boat at the Sheepshead Bay Yacht club once I bring her up from the Chesapeake in March.

I did some online digging this morning and printed a single-day Sam's Club "trial pass" online. As people have mentioned, they have great prices for these golf cart units ($80)... I'm going to stop in NJ on Saturday on the way down to the boat and buy 4 along with a new start battery. I'm considering going with a Duracell Group 27 Skipmac reccomended (only $100 at Sam's Club).

A new set of batteries for $468 seems like a solid deal.
Hi Ryan,

I purchased my Group 27 starting battery at Sams. They had two versions, as I recall one about $100 and one about $80. The $100 had over 1000 CA while the $80 was about 850 CA. I went with the $100 version.
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Old 19-01-2017, 10:19   #25
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

I'm looking at the $100 unit which has 1035 CA at 32 degrees.

Thanks Skipmac
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Old 19-01-2017, 11:01   #26
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
I'm looking at the $100 unit which has 1035 CA at 32 degrees.

Thanks Skipmac
By the way, how is your W58 running? A lot of 424/422 owners have repowered but mine seems to be doing fine. Bought the boat in Greenport NY and motored most of the way to FL. Just made a shakedown cruises from Green Cove Springs to West End and back, again little cooperation from the wind so motored most of that trip as well. Engine ran like a top.

I did strip it to the bare block and replace: all hoses, alternator, both water pumps, belts, several of the brackets, etc. Also took off all the heat exchangers and cleaned them out.

Also, if you need any parts for the W58 I have learned that it's the exact same engine as a Perkins 4.154, just painted red instead of blue. W58 fresh water pump (just the impellor/shaft section) lists for almost $300. Bought a Perkins unit from a tractor dealer for $90.

One thing to watch for, since the engine is mounted backwards with the V-drive the exhaust manifold goes up from the engine to the mixing elbow. One 422 owner I know had to replace the engine because the elbow went bad and salt water leaked back into the closest exhaust valve and corroded the valve, head and everything else in the area.
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Old 19-01-2017, 11:47   #27
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

I have found Rolls very good but basically they heaviest 6v you can get for the money will be the best value as long as it is a genuine traction battery.
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Old 19-01-2017, 11:59   #28
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Skipmac,

Thanks for the info about the Perkins engine and the heads-up about the mixing elbow (yikes!). I will keep an eye on it.

She ran very well during the pre-purchase survey in December. She's now winterized, so I'll be able to give you a much better answer after I bring her to New York in March.

She did great during the sea trial. She's a little greasy-looking and she could use some paint, but she started right up and ran well, no smoke, no overheating, good power. She was rebuilt about 3700 hours ago and I know that the previous owner just had the heat exchanger cleaned and serviced.

I'm going to paint her, but that's further down my to-do list... I'll definitely swap out all the hoses and belts when I do that.

From what I can tell she's a good 'ol boat engine... I had a 40-year old Atomic 4 on my last boat that ran like a top as long as I paid attention to her...
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Old 19-01-2017, 12:08   #29
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Surprising I'm the first to recommend Trojan 12 volt batteries. I have been using them for 10 years and love them. The 6 volt batteries are too tall to fit so I had to go with the 12 volt SCS 225 (130 amp)...I have 3 to make up the house bank giving me almost 400 amp hours. My 390 watts of solar mostly keeps up with my electrical use which is high with frig in constant use as a cruiser on the hook and me on the computer 12 hours a day.
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Old 19-01-2017, 12:19   #30
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Re: What batteries are you using and where are you buying them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I have been following the discussions on the LiFePo batteries and so far my take is:

1. Done correctly they can offer several major advantages:
- the lowest cost per amp hour over the life of the battery
- fastest and shortest charge time IF you have the system to supply the amps they can take
- smaller, lighter installation for the same usable amp hours (emphasis on usable).

2. Disadvantages
- Very big upfront investment
- 95% certain you will also have to upgrade or modify your charging system.
- NOT plug and play. Big learning curve and require a significant investment in time to get them installed and working correctly.
- Screw up the install/setup and you have just trashed a very expensive set of batteries.

Any comments or further information on the above is of great interest.

Bottom line for me, and I do have a degree in electrical engineering, I'm just not willing to invest the time and hassle to deal with LiFePo at this time. Just seems to much work and too easy to make an expensive mistake. Then I'm also the guy that never buys version 1.0 of any software and waited several years to buy a flat panel TV. When the technology matures a little then I'll reconsider.
I completely agree. (And I also have one of those pesky EE degrees). LiFePo has some fantastic advantages. Also some drawbacks for the vast majority of users. So do AGMs I always wonder why AGMs are recommended so often. They're no better for a daysailer/weekender in a marina. They're siginficantly poorer than FLA for a solar powered boat. They really only make good sense on a boat that runs a genset every day.

Calder was on the 59 North podcast last week and said some very good things about the firefly batteries. He also said some less than optimal things about them.
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