Victron Inverter/Charger

[HudosonForce50]

Is it possible to have too much inverter?

Say Victron 12v/3000/120 vs Victron 12v/5000/120 Quattro?

Only one of my outlets has power-in the galley.

I will be purchasing a generator,. All other outlets are useless while on my mooring.

I haven’t built up my battery bank yet. I don’t have any numbers yet due to lack of equipment (which will be purchased).

As of now one fridge, one Radar, and Robertson autopilot.

Any insight is welcome!

[SailingHarmonie]

Yes, you can have too much inverter. If you put in one bigger than you ever need there are downsides.

You can pay for much more than you need to buy.
It will take more space and add more weight.
At low utilizations, the efficiency is lower because the idle power usage is higher.

An electrical system is just that, a SYSTEM. You can not pick the pieces out without knowing the whole design. If you do, there will be problems.

Bigger is NOT always better (no matter what your wife says).

[rslifkin]

Primary downside of an oversized inverter is higher idle draw when the inverter is on an under very light or no load.

[smac999]

if you only have 1 outlet. which would be a 15a circuit. you could never use more then 1500w...

if it's only powering 1 outlet then get a 2000w. that will let you power anything that can be plugged in. including start up surges.

so you are wasting your money. although it does give you a bigger charger. if the gen and battery bank is big enough to benifit.

[CaptainRivet]

US120V or 230V?.

Make a plan what you are planing to add from the big consumers:
Electric galley?
120/230V in every cabin?
Washing machine?
Water maker?
Big ac power tools?
Do you have female on board, with long hair?

My Experience if woman onboard a proper hair dryer and Hoover is a must have or divorce item meaning that uses min. 1800W. Same goes for a lot of other AC stuff. So a 2000W is minimum.
Being able to drive all 230V typical household in Europe is 16A means a 3500W inverter, but a 3500 inverter in 12V hard to find and besides induction stove and a heater not many really max out the 16A…so typical is 2200-2500W.
don‘t know what is typical max household unit current comparable in US.
So the 3000/12 is your choice and the 250A at 12V that uses under full load you can find a lot of stuff with 300A rating. It’s actually only a 2400W cont. inverter. The idle load between a 1500W and a 3000W is negligible with LFP. Also don‘t forget the detracting with higher ambient temps so the 2400W cont at 25 degrees Celsius go down to 1700W at 65 degrees Celsius. And running an inverter everytime on max shortens it’s life drastically.
The 3000 is the sweet spot…
Also it’s very easy to rewire the AC input from mooring to your shore input, so doesn‘t matter if shorepower or mooring all AC plugs are active. Done that on my cat too.
And for the small loads I highly recommend a 2nd small inverter like 300W at the helm station or other convenient location with its own plug for all that small gear like charger for computers….which can be permanently on.
I actually run my 155l 230V freezer that needs 0,5A at 230V via a small dedicated 300W inverter permanently while having 6,5kw, soon 7kw big inverters for the galley and other high draw equipment which are on at request as they have a too high idle load.
The 5000/12 is really just for pro‘s or very experienced installer, that 450A draw is really challenging to install and really overkill for 90% out there.

[HudosonForce50]

Thank you for the input! I completely agree with everything you said.

I’m not sure what the difference would be on the draw between a 3000 and a 5000, but it would be a shame to get one that ends up being too small down the road.

Also I think that the Quattro series starts at tge 5000 range, and from what I’ve read, they are more compatible with a generator interface. -I would love to know if the 3000 Multiplus ‘likes’ generators as much?

[HudosonForce50]

Super helpful, thank you!

[HudosonForce50]

Great point! The battery bank will be on the large side. I haven’t bought them just yet. Im a Merchant Mariner, and am doing extra work this year, so im holding off in hopes that those LiFePro Batteries come down a little in price while at sea⚓️

[HudosonForce50]

My Hudson has a lot of varnish, and as a new owner I need to strip all of it. I will be using a heat gun for month to come. Maybe two if I can get some help. I also want to be able to use any tool ever made, including a small MIG welder for repairs that haven’t happened yet!

[HeywoodJ]

For your part numbers you specify 12V input. A 3000 is probably as large as I personally would like to go at 12V, at maximum rated efficiency you are at ~270A to feed that inverter. A 5000 gets you to ~450A at full power. For that kind of power output at anything other than a very short burst I'd want to be running at 24 or 48V input, almost regardless of battery bank size or chemistry.

The 3000 in the Multiplus family runs 13W idle (~1A @ 12V), the 5000 Quattro runs 30W unless you use the search mode.

As mentioned upthread, it is a system, and trying to answer this in a vacuum without an understanding of batteries, loads, and load profile is futile.

[mlydon]

Everyone so far has only touched on the inverter side of inverter/charger…..

The victron can charge at 120 amps - I have a 450amp bank that needs that much charging to stay healthy. I barely use 1000 watts for a toaster, but need it all for charging…..

Matt

[MerMike]

The Quattro has a transfer switch built in. The Multi does not. That's likely what was meant by "generator-friendly".

[HudosonForce50]

Your insight is super helpful, thank you!

[rslifkin]

The Multiplus also has a built in transfer switch between shore and inverter power. However, the Quattro has 2 AC inputs, the Multiplus only has 1.



If you already have generator switching installed up-stream of where you'd be connecting the inverter input, you'll be fine with the Multiplus. If you want the inverter to do the generator switching, get the Quattro.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by HudosonForce50

Is it possible to have too much inverter?

Say Victron 12v/3000/120 vs Victron 12v/5000/120 Quattro?

Only one of my outlets has power-in the galley.

I will be purchasing a generator,. All other outlets are useless while on my mooring.

I haven’t built up my battery bank yet. I don’t have any numbers yet due to lack of equipment (which will be purchased).

As of now one fridge, one Radar, and Robertson autopilot.

Any insight is welcome!

I am currently running a 12v/3000w/120v unit, I have a 30A shore power cord, this unit is capable of handling 50A, and I have it limiting the current to 30.

What I recommend when you do this, is that you go to a 2 panel configuration for your DC, one which has the main for your shore power and a built in ELCI, and a couple of breakers to power outlets on the boat that will not be powered from the inverter, as well as things like your water heater.

The reason for this is, say you have your boat at a marina and it is winter, you are running an electric heater and a dehumidifier to keep the boat dried out.

If the power grid drops and you have not done this, the heaters and dehumidifier won't take long to absolutely flatten your battery bank, it will be dead within 1-2 hours, and with that your bilge pumps etc will stop working.

That is no bueno.

Then you have your main electrical panel, with another main breaker, for the rest of your 120v that is serviced by the inverter.

Right now I am running 400ah of Renogy GEL cell batteries, and they are ok, a bit hard to charge, and it does take a while with my 120A alternator, I will be switching up to Lithium, and will probably stick with Renogy, as for $3000 I can get 600ah of lithium in the form-factor of 3X 8D's.

I am also running the Victron Cerbo GX, and for the most part I am happy with it, although the WIFI gateway likes to be a problem, so mount the unit where you can easily get to it to reset the gateway.


I am running a 120A alternator, and personally, I am finding it is insufficient to get the job done, I will be upgrading to a Balmar 175A as soon as I am able, and this will be before going to the Lithium.

The one thing I am super happy with is the Balmar MC-618 charge regulator I have already installed, I am running this with their shunt inline with the Victron shunt and both work well together.

The MC-618 is a solid unit, and gives you a ton of information on your phone, and allows for doing things like ramping up the charging rather than going full blast, and delaying charging for a period of time to let the engine warm up a bit etc.

It can also measure the temperature of the Alternator and perform several other functions, and if you desire you can limit the output of the alternator.

It has been my experience that the unit does a good job of monitoring and controlling the charge of the batteries.

The one thing I will say is that you do need to be sure that your voltage sense wire goes directly to the positive terminal on the battery, and do use the Bluesea voltage disconnect switch with the accessory terminal for that wire, to ensure that if someone flips the battery switch off while the engine is running, that it does not blow the alternator.

You should have your system configured so as that should it happen that any of the switches are shut off between the alternator and the battery, that it disconnects this.

Between my main positive bus, and the electrical system, I have a Victron 220A smart battery disconnect, when the system hits the cutoff voltage (I have mine set at 12v) the unit starts by enabling an audible alarm, and then it will disconnect the power before the batteries are damaged.

The only system able to bypass this are the bilge pumps, because I would rather destroy a set of batteries than sink a boat!


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!