Victron charger/inverter in engine bay

[nuru05]

Is it a bad idea to put my victron charger inverter in my engine bay? The electrician that wired it put it in the aft locker and I hate it there because It’s a constant battle to keep water from getting in and to keep from stuff pushing up against it.

I could easily move it to the engine bay and it would be almost the exact same distance from the battery bank (in the aft cabin). My main concern would be temperature but we run the engine so little we could just limit our electronics usage when the engine is running.

For reference the boat is a moody 425 which is a center cockpit.

[SailingHarmonie]

It depends...

It seems obvious that anyplace the is chronically damp is a very bad place for equipment like this. Putting gear like this in the living space is also not such a great idea. It is noisy in a very annoying and unpredictable way as the unit hums at the line frequency, and the fan cycles on and off and changes speed.

Our Victron Multiplus 220V-24-3000-70 has happily lived in the engine room for years, next to an isolation transformer and next to a 110V 2000W inverter. When the engine runs the engine room will get warmer. How much warmer depends on the level of ventilation installed. If you have limited ventilation, the Victron will begin to throttle back its maximum output at an internal temperature about 40C.

In our case the intake air enters near the bank of electronic gear, so keeps it a few degrees cooler. We are a rather electrically intense boat, and have never had a problem with this installation.

[mvweebles]

Where do you boat? I've been slowly working my way south from California to Panama. ER temps have been climbing along the way - will see close to 120F before too long which, while within spec of the inverter, can't be good for it. My inverter is close to my LFP battery bank on the lazarette. Some minor issues keeping it dry, but manageable.

[Kettlewell]

My personal opinion is to keep everything extraneous away from the engine space as much as possible. Extra heat is never a good thing for any electronics, plus I have had situations where a leaking water line sprayed a fine mist all over the engine space. Luckily I eventually smelled something odd and checked before major damage was done. Same thing can happen with hot exhaust lines, or even fuel lines.

[SailingHarmonie]

In our case the boat was specifically designed so that everything that made noise, vibrated, smelled bad, or was otherwise unpleasant to live with was installed in the engine room which is surrounded by heavily sound proofed, watertight bulkheads that completely isolated it from the living space. All pumps, fans, electrical and other gear are mounted on vibration damping rubber feet. Simple plexiglass screens guard any pressurized saltwater connections so if there is a fitting failure, it does not damage other things.

Because of this, things like the fresh water pump and bilge pump can not be heard in the main cabin and require pilot lights to let you know they are running.

For us this arrangement is perfect, and the idea of sharing living space with the mechanical equipment just seems primitive and unnecessary. When we do a delivery, we are kind of horrified that other high end boats are so noisy in normal operation. I really prefer not to hear the fresh water pump roaring along when the first person gets up in the morning to brush their teeth.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My personal opinion is to keep everything extraneous away from the engine space as much as possible. Extra heat is never a good thing for any electronics, plus I have had situations where a leaking water line sprayed a fine mist all over the engine space. Luckily I eventually smelled something odd and checked before major damage was done. Same thing can happen with hot exhaust lines, or even fuel lines.

Over the years I've migrated to this philosophy too. I've noticed most higher end builders seem to limit the electronics and electrical devices in the engine spaces too, at least until s boat gets pretty dang big - 75 foot (powerboat). Even AC compressors/chillers are installed in well built and protected lazarette. I'd imagine hear is a major concern, though larger powerboats have very large 120VAC Delta blowers that do a wonderful job. I believe main reason is maintenance and troubleshooting is easier when plumbing and wiring is run in a purpose-designed space vs an engine room already cluttered with tanks, plumbing, wiring, etc.

While I can understand Sailingaharmony's point about noise, sound proofing is certainly feasible and preferable to placing everything in the ER. At least that's where my thoughts have shifted.

[NorthCoastJoe]

How tight is the engine room. On my 44' boat it's a small space that needs a blower running all the time to keep the temperature below 140F. If you think about it the engine reaches a temperature of whatever the thermostat is 170F for most engines. The surrounding air heats up and depending on ventilation can reach the same 170F if closed up. My Beta 50 manual states that I should keep the engine room temperature below 140F.

I would measure your engine room temperature after a time running the engine and several intervals after shut down when there is no air movement. You will be surprised how hot it gets in there. It will get hotter after you shut down.
A remote oven thermometer will work well for this task.

I have an engine room temperature gauge on my panel so I know what's going on in there. A continuous duty blower and a booster blower that I can turn on if needed.

What is the #1 killer of alternators, heat. Electronics don't like heat !

I would not put it in the engine bay.

[Zanshin]

I suggest measuring the temperature in the bay after motoring for a while in the summer. Take that value as the minimum value for the inverter/charger. These devices actually have a published de-rating table to see how much the maximum output degrades with higher temperatures. What the manufacture might state is the max temp, but won't explicitly mention that running it within 10 degrees of maximum will reduce service life by 50% or more...

I'm with @NorthCoastJoe - the bay is going to be too warm/hot. Unless you can get it placed to get the fresh cooler air blowing into the bay; or give it a separate air cooling circuit.

[CharlieJ]

Here is the Victron Derating information on their website. Two sections: ambient temperature and load.

https://tinyurl.com/mr2rhy8y

[SailingHarmonie]

All I can say, is it works for us and has for many years.

I tried to make clear that ventilation is key, and most boats have vastly under ventilated engine rooms. Performance of a diesel is directly related to how much O2 they can cram into the cylinder, and hot air makes that very hard. If you are running 140F in your engine room, you NEED more ventilation.

We have one 4" blower pushing air INTO the engine space, and another 4" blower blowing air OUT and a third 4" passive intake because the engine sucks air as well. It works. It keeps the engine space temperature lower than 120F even in the tropics (if you count Grenada in July as the tropics...)

The photo was taken with me sitting on the main engine, and the generator has its covers off because it was the subject of the photo, but it gives you an idea of the physical arrangement. And no, this is NOT a "75 foot boat" and it was built by a premium cruising yacht builder.

But one thing everybody is missing... when the engine is running you are not using the inverter/charger at all to charge the batteries, and very likely are minimally loading the inverter side as well. We have never seen the inverter/charger do any load shedding as a result of over heating. Ever.

I do completely get it that if you have 2 feet of clearance around your engine there is no way you can do anything like this. Even if you keep the air temperature of the space low, (which you still should do!) the radiant heat off the engine can be a problem. Just do not assume that what doesn't work on your boat won't work for anybody's boat.

Remember, I started my comments with "It depends..."

[GordMay]

In addition to heat rise [engine warms electronics, &/or electronics heats compartment], I'd consider possible cooling water">engine cooling water leaks/spray.

For design purposes, the ambient temperature of machinery spaces is generally considered to be 50°C (122°F), and of all other spaces is considered to be 30°C (86°F).

The Victron MultiPlus has an Operating Temperature range of: -40 to +65°C [149°F] (/w integral fan assisted cooling)
➥ https://www.victronenergy.com/media/...ical-data.html

Caterpillar, for instance, specifies the maximum engine room temperature as 120°F.
Note on Page 3 ➥ http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/Ca...13-53120-44971

See also:
“Venting the Engineroom” ~ by Steve D'Antonio
➥ https://www.proboat.com/2015/06/venting-the-engineroom/

Note also, Charlie J's [post #9] "Technical notes on output rating, operating temperature and efficiency"
➥ https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...efficiency.pdf

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

All I can say, is it works for us and has for many years.

I tried to make clear that ventilation is key, and most boats have vastly under ventilated engine rooms. Performance of a diesel is directly related to how much O2 they can cram into the cylinder, and hot air makes that very hard. If you are running 140F in your engine room, you NEED more ventilation.

We have one 4" blower pushing air INTO the engine space, and another 4" blower blowing air OUT and a third 4" passive intake because the engine sucks air as well. It works. It keeps the engine space temperature lower than 120F even in the tropics (if you count Grenada in July as the tropics...)

The photo was taken with me sitting on the main engine, and the generator has its covers off because it was the subject of the photo, but it gives you an idea of the physical arrangement. And no, this is NOT a "75 foot boat" and it was built by a premium cruising yacht builder.

But one thing everybody is missing... when the engine is running you are not using the inverter/charger at all to charge the batteries, and very likely are minimally loading the inverter side as well. We have never seen the inverter/charger do any load shedding as a result of over heating. Ever.

I do completely get it that if you have 2 feet of clearance around your engine there is no way you can do anything like this. Even if you keep the air temperature of the space low, (which you still should do!) the radiant heat off the engine can be a problem. Just do not assume that what doesn't work on your boat won't work for anybody's boat.

Remember, I started my comments with "It depends..."

Well that’s a very huge and spacious engine room (here you easily can)…compared to the usally cramped „caves“ in a lot monos and cat where you cannot install inverter.

Well I have mine on the other side of the engine room bulkhead, in a cupboard after the owners bed. During day they run and make sometimes noise…at night they are off and only the 230V freezer running Phönix 800VA is on but loaded with around 150W its totally quiet and behind a damped panel.

To OP: you could simply build a ventilated cupboard around it so it’s protected form all the stuff in the storage, maybe even ventilated to the other room where no water is. Or basically just space the area off where the electronics are.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by nuru05

Is it a bad idea to put my victron charger inverter in my engine bay? The electrician that wired it put it in the aft locker and I hate it there because It’s a constant battle to keep water from getting in and to keep from stuff pushing up against it.

I could easily move it to the engine bay and it would be almost the exact same distance from the battery bank (in the aft cabin). My main concern would be temperature but we run the engine so little we could just limit our electronics usage when the engine is running.

For reference the boat is a moody 425 which is a center cockpit.

Just post a photo of your engine room…