Using arc welder wiring

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Do not use the welding cable. The insulation will eventually crack and fail; the untined fine wire will crumble.
we used in place welding cable when we installed our first electric anchor windless. In what turned out to be a serious false economy we used the welding cables for ground and ran Anchor 00 tinned for the positive.
What could go wrong?
After 20 years the welding cable was falling apart but largely unseen in its run to the bow. This caused intermittent ground failure which caused me to replace most of the windless electrics ( solenoid, motor etc) sequentially thinking it was fixed each time only to fail again sometime in the future.
All became clear when 150 miles offshore at night we had an electrical fire. A connection for a nav light laying next to cracked welding dead shorted. We were taking waves over the bow with some salt water as usual making its way past the chain into the chain locker and spraying a very modest amount of saltwater on to the conduit tray / channel just as I am sure had happened many times before.
The boat filled with acrid smoke. Fortunately after shutting everything down and letting the smoke clear it was straight forward to find the the offending ( and failing ) circuit breaker turn it off and be on our way.
Because the wiring was elegantly bundled the surrounding wires insulation melted.
This ended in many days of pulling bad wire and replacing with new. The ground side welding wire was replaced with tinned Anchor 00.When the old cable was pulled out it broke apart every two to three feet. The fine wires simply went to dust in salt air environment not just saltwater.

This could have gone badly in several directions and proved once again better to be lucky than smart.
Do not use the welding cable.
TML

[Cheechako]

It's great stuff, nice and flexible and not stiff. As you mentioned fine wire strands. But also as mentioned the rubber cover may break down eventually. Although below deck, maybe not in a long time. It's been used many times when people were building their own boats a lot.
I prefer fully tinned wire but for cables with good ends not a big deal. "Good ends" being the key. I would solder after crimping and completely cover with industrial shrink tube as used in 480 V factory applications.
BTW, ABYC is completely voluntary and not a requirement.

[john61ct]

And designing / selecting components for say a 10-15 year lifespan to save money is entirely rational, if you know it will then be someone else's problem.

I myself would not take that approach, but most factories did, never imagined the grandchildren of their target market would be keeping their boats going so long.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It's great stuff, nice and flexible and not stiff. As you mentioned fine wire strands. But also as mentioned the rubber cover may break down eventually. Although below deck, maybe not in a long time. It's been used many times when people were building their own boats a lot.
I prefer fully tinned wire but for cables with good ends not a big deal. "Good ends" being the key. I would solder after crimping and completely cover with industrial shrink tube as used in 480 V factory applications.
BTW, ABYC is completely voluntary and not a requirement.

True ABYC compliance is not mandated by most governing bodies, but it is by most insurers.

To not be in compliance is pretty foolish, unless one knows more than the team of subject matter experts that developed the standards.

PS, ABYC does not specify “tinned” wire, but it is a darned good idea, for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread.

[LargeMarge]

re:
Solder

Why? The mechanical crushing of fitting to cable fuses the two into a single entity.

Solder melts. Each time your cable or equipment or environment == or combination == reaches a plateau temperature, solder integrity takes a nose-dive.

I was an A&P aircraft mechanic. Used to be in the olden days, we slid a heat-shrink onto the cable a few inches, drenched the cable end in di-electric grease, crimped, tested, slid the heat-shrink over the joint, and applied the heat-gun to unify.

Then test again.

In aviation, wires are considered 'consumable'. Use, test, discard, replace with new. Test again.

Fuse everything!

* * * * *


re:
Sell for scrap

Yes, copper scrap is up right now. And new welders always need cable. Of the two, I prefer offering it to a user rather than shipping it overseas to be returned to us in another form.

In other words, re-use shows a greater long-term 'global' return-on-investment than recycle.

Heck, if Niagara was closer to Oregon, we could put it to use.

* * * * *

re:
Marine use

I thought tinned wire was like shopping at Whole Foods instead of the local farmers market. Unnecessary and all for show. "I replaced my 40-horse Lehman with triple Cummins 800hp." Right.

However, a wet caustic hot enclosed safety-dependent environment requires the best. Finances don't enter the picture.

Few people would save money by jumping with a free parachute.



PS:
Did you get any free parachutes with your free cable? My neighbor with the dogs howling all night could be the proud recipient of your parachute. Her birthday is coming up...

[Caliber40]

BTW....all welding cable is not insulated with rubber insulation as previously stated.

[john61ct]

Not all X is Y

is different from

All X is not Y.

[Cheechako]

[QUOTE=LargeMarge;2685852]re:
Solder

Why? The mechanical crushing of fitting to cable fuses the two into a single entity.

Solder melts. Each time your cable or equipment or environment == or combination == reaches a plateau temperature, solder integrity takes a nose-dive.

I was an A&P aircraft mechanic. Used to be in the olden days, we slid a heat-shrink onto the cable a few inches, drenched the cable end in di-electric grease, crimped, tested, slid the heat-shrink over the joint, and applied the heat-gun to unify."


Boy, your system better not be getting that hot! Solder because it fills all the cracks and crevices that can start corrosion. Must have? No. Nice? IMO yes. I always solder large cable. Smaller wire.. no.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Solder because it fills all the cracks and crevices that can start corrosion.

Of which there are none with a proper crimp.

[Terra Nova]

Solder can only do harm to a properly crimped connection. Absolutely the wrong thing to do.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Of which there are none with a proper crimp.

Sorry, but even a rotary swaged rigging fitting has crevices. That's why they always rust right there where the wire exits the fitting, where the moisture collects. And nobody is rotary swaging battery cables!

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

...even a rotary swaged rigging fitting has crevices. That's why they always rust right there where the wire exits the fitting, where the moisture collects...

More misinformation.

Rigging wire is not copper stranded; it is normally stainless steel, which can rust, especially where it was cut using plain steel cutting tools, as that can leave deposits on the ends of the cut wire.

[john61ct]

Yes so why bring it up? Chalk and cheese.

Proper wiring, good quality fittings and supplies with the right crimper yield 100% gastight fused block of copper inside a sealed terminator, tge encapsulated in adhesive-lined heatshrink.

Milspec pull test to verify, 100% repeatability.

That's what I mean by a proper crimp.

Solder would add no value, only problems.

Now, a skilled solderer can do as good a job, but that skillset is difficult for a noob to acquire.

Whereas with the right tools a noob can do crimping right, with just an hour or two of practice.

[Scott Berg]

It's your boat, so you can do whatever your insurer is OK with. My company only uses UL rated tinned stranded boat cable for all installations, professionally crimped (box crimpers for heavy battery runs/etc, AMP Aircraft crimpers for circuit wire. Heat-shrink, label, etc. Lots of shortcuts at the dock but I often find they are a false economy once at sea...

[Zil]

John has said all i could add.