Throw Victron out--move EF Power Kit in?

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by Nor

Very interesting! I've been looking at this ecoflow and also the Bluetti ac200max, and got some questions for you if you don't mind. I've read the ecoflow delta is noisy, do you hear the fans when mounted und the seat? Does it generate much heat?
If you use a lot of 12V from the house system then the ecoflow would charge the house bank and possibly depleting itself, - will it then have to be manually turned back on to 1) receive solar and 2) provide AC? What kind of switch have you installed to switch between external shorepower and ecoflow connected to shorepower (or do you connect it manually physically to shorepower connection?

All the batteries will have the fans kick on when there’s a big load. Just the laws of thermal dynamics. If you deplete the EF and it’s plugged into solar, it will always be charging as long as there is like 30w coming through. If you plug it in AC, it will automatically start charging. The simplicity of it is you just plug one end into the delta pro or whatever battery you use and the other just into shore power like you normally would at a marina.

[goeasy123]

I don't believe things like Echoflow, Bluetti and Anker 767 have enough 12v output current to back up the boat's LA system. My understanding is that the internal battery is 24v or maybe 48v in order to make operating their inverters possible with reasonable wiring. Therefore, what would a 'better' DIY solution look like?

[250224]

The Power Kit has 13.6 V, 70 A (max 1000) Watt DC output. This, I think, is plenty and would comfortable take care of my whole boat 12 V consumption. However I read somewhere that there is a 7 - 10 W loss from the 48/12 V conversion. Seems quite significant compared to taking the energy from a dump 12 V battery.

The portable PowerStations has much less DC output; Delta 2 e.g.* 2 ports, 12.6V, 3A, 38W Max. In addition there is some USB-A/C and Car Power output. Wouldn't be enough for my 12 V boat needs.

I wouldn't consider PowerStations without LFP4 batteries.

*(acc. to https://eu.ecoflow.com/products/delt...42596003512484)

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

I don't believe things like Echoflow, Bluetti and Anker 767 have enough 12v output current to back up the boat's LA system. My understanding is that the internal battery is 24v or maybe 48v in order to make operating their inverters possible with reasonable wiring. Therefore, what would a 'better' DIY solution look like?

Yea most are 48v. It’s just an easy way to get LIFPO4 batteries, inverter, MPPT controller on the boat. I wouldn’t recommend for live aboard use but works really well if you are coastal cruiser looking to add an inverter and capacity.

Originally Posted by pietvdiemen

The Power Kit has 13.6 V, 70 A (max 1000) Watt DC output. This, I think, is plenty and would comfortable take care of my whole boat 12 V consumption. However I read somewhere that there is a 7 - 10 W loss from the 48/12 V conversion. Seems quite significant compared to taking the energy from a dump 12 V battery.

The portable PowerStations has much less DC output; Delta 2 e.g.* 2 ports, 12.6V, 3A, 38W Max. In addition there is some USB-A/C and Car Power output. Wouldn't be enough for my 12 V boat needs.

I wouldn't consider PowerStations without LFP4 batteries.

*(acc. to https://eu.ecoflow.com/products/delt...42596003512484)

With a delta pro, it has an Anderson port that you can wire over for 12v. That said, I’d probably focus on using the portable for coastal uses or backups. Power kits are more permanent but that control unit is pretty massive.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

All the batteries will have the fans kick on when there’s a big load. Just the laws of thermal dynamics. If you deplete the EF and it’s plugged into solar, it will always be charging as long as there is like 30w coming through. If you plug it in AC, it will automatically start charging. The simplicity of it is you just plug one end into the delta pro or whatever battery you use and the other just into shore power like you normally would at a marina.

The fan noise will vary depending on efficiency of the inverter, the fan size and how compact the unit is. The Ecoflow is reported to be more noisy than the Anker.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

I don't believe things like Echoflow, Bluetti and Anker 767 have enough 12v output current to back up the boat's LA system. My understanding is that the internal battery is 24v or maybe 48v in order to make operating their inverters possible with reasonable wiring. Therefore, what would a 'better' DIY solution look like?

You can use the 230V output to connect to the boats shorepower inlet. The 230V outputs is 2400W, so would be plenty.

[goeasy123]

Originally Posted by Nor

You can use the 230V output to connect to the boats shorepower inlet. The 230V outputs is 2400W, so would be plenty.

Good point.

Would an E Pro work as a 'non-integrated' backup. The it sits on charge of the LA buss through a VSR. So it is drawing current only when charging sources are active. Off charge, you can plug it into the showerpower inlet to charge the LA and run 240v appliances or run the appliances of the E's 230V sockets.

The only thing you don't have is high current 12vdc to back up failing LA. Are there any other compromises?

The Anker 767 is probably big enough to do it at have the price of the E Pro.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The website is very short on details, but for a cruising boat I don’t like integrated systems where a single component failure can cause havoc.

I can see advantages to a general purpose black box that can simply be replaced, rather than dedicated components that have to be individually sourced and installed.

[billdomb]

Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/@EmilyAndClark
They've concocted a slick battery bank manager system.

See, for instance,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJIFW_2GEwc

[250224]

Originally Posted by billdomb

[B]Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/@EmilyAndClark
They've concocted a slick battery bank manager system.
See, for instance, www . youtube.com / watch ? v=AJIFW_2GEwc

Wow! That looks like a great system. Many many thanks for posting. First time where I think, it could really make sense (for me) to put together a system from individual parts.

(Some earlier rather sceptical commentor about the integrated PowerKit has a huge 14.4 kWh gel battery system (AFAICT) and thus elegantly sails around all the complicated lithium questions/issues. On my boat--limited space--lithium is a must (I had pure gel batteries before, but I want more energy now...)).

I suppose such combined LFP4 plus SLA batteries would have much less loss than a Power Station/Kit where the 12 V DC output needs to be on always. On the other hand, a nice monitor with all sources and loads is not automatically included.

Btw, there is a newer video from Clark where he talks about the version 2.0 of his BankManager, i.e. link LFP4 and SLA batteries. I never before saw a video/document where this subject was treated so concisely. Link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZSr6o5fLHE

[250224]

PS: two more links:

- Notes on the math & science behind the Battery Bank Management System (BBMS): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WM0...M1GJ7dALq/view

- mentioned on that article and, I think, also here on cf before: https://nordkyndesign.com/charging-m...battery-banks/

PPS: a bit off-topic from the EF Power Kit subject. But I suppose it is too early for real practical comments about the Power Kit (nobody has seen/used it so far)

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by pietvdiemen

PS: two more links:

- Notes on the math & science behind the Battery Bank Management System (BBMS): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WM0...M1GJ7dALq/view

- mentioned on that article and, I think, also here on cf before: https://nordkyndesign.com/charging-m...battery-banks/

PPS: a bit off-topic from the EF Power Kit subject. But I suppose it is too early for real practical comments about the Power Kit (nobody has seen/used it so far)

Power kits are available but I don’t know if anyone using it on a boat yet.

[Adelie]

An integrated power solution has a big advantage and a huge disadvantage.

Pro: you don’t need to figure out how to make all the pieces work together, just plug things in.

Also it usually gives you integrated data for all the bits.

Con: if some part of the integrated system fails it probably will take the whole system down and you will be left with nothing until it is serviced by a dealer. No redundancy.

Also bulky. If it gives a a big enough inverter and panel controller you can’t just add more batteries.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Also bulky. If it gives a a big enough inverter and panel controller you can’t just add more batteries.

I know Bluetti's have add-on expansion batteries, other manufacturers might.

I currently have a Bluetti, to provide power until I can get around to replacing the existing house bank.

It takes up space in the cabin that a built-in system would not, so I'll probably sell it when I no longer need it, but that's a few years out.

[250224]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The website is very short on details, but for a cruising boat I don’t like integrated systems where a single component failure can cause havoc.

I didn't believe you at first but now after testing/using an EB70 Bluetti I'm less enthusiastic. Issue:

While the Bluetti does run well with a watercooker (950 W) it gave a "short" message with the Rommelsbacher induction (CTS 2000) stove when only using 4 - 500 W (measured separately). Not sure if it is a component failure (there are other 'short threads' on the internet) but in any case it is not working as intended.

Maybe this wouldn't happen with another model or the EcoFlow Power Kit. But it made me wary to depend on such things. (Even if I would have loved to have a relative small 48 V based magic energy box).