The Dangers of Lipo Batteries

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by StuM

It's also a mistake to refer to Lithium Ion or Li-Ion when discussing the various attributes of Lithium based batteries.


LCO, LMO, LTO, LFP (LiFePO4), NCA, NMC ... are all "Lithium Ion" batteries with different chemistries.


And LiPo (Lithium Polymer) is not a chemistry, it's just a generic descriptor for various types of Li-Ion cells that use an electrolyte in polymer form(either dry solid or gel) rather than liquid. There are several chemistries used for LiPo.

Thanks for the clarification re: LiPo and Li-Ion.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ColinIOM

Hi, the first thing I must state is that I am NOT Electrically Competent, I am however a mechanically competent person and cruise for 5 months permanently in the Baltic Sea each summer. I am only providing information here, it will be totally up to you how you use this information.

Colin, what sort of batteries are you using on your boat? not those dangerous exploding lead acid batteries are they

[wholybee]

Does the fossil fuel industry pay people to post junk like this, and/or feed the media misinformation about Lithium batteries?

The information on the safety of LFP is easy to find, only a few seconds here will turn up tons. The campaign against a chemistry that is 20 years old and proven safe is quite strong.

[sailorboy1]

2 months with lfp for me and the biggest danger is that for some reason I want more of them

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Colin, what sort of batteries are you using on your boat? not those dangerous exploding lead acid batteries are they

That's freakin' FUNNY!
We've only had our 1,200 ah of LiFePO4 house batteries for 10 months now, 3,600 miles, 650+ engine hours and about 140 days on the hook, so I'll wait a couple of more years before we're REALLY able to give a good review . . . . . but . . . . based on our experience so far, we're never going back to FLA!

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by ColinIOM

Hi, the first thing I must state is that I am NOT Electrically Competent, I am however a mechanically competent person and cruise for 5 months permanently in the Baltic Sea each summer. I am only providing information here, it will be totally up to you how you use this information.

With the developed world’s push towards electrically powered vehicles I wonder how many people are fully aware of the life threatening (this is NOT an exaggeration) dangers they possess.

Because of Global Warming the drive towards EV’s has been relentless, it has possibly outstripped normal research and development.

I know this will likely be the start of a hugely controversial issue within various Cruiser / Sailing Forums and, really I would have expected this to have already been addressed (It may have been and I personally may have missed it, but I don’t think so). It is one that I am definitely NOT competent to provide any answers to, only my personal opinion and research.

Lipo batteries have great promise of lots of power, fast charging and comparatively light weight, what’s not to like? Well, please read the following, it may save your life.

These batteries are totally unsuitable for use on any boat, because of the probability of us being offshore at the time when the worst can happen and the speed at which it can happen makes it life threatening.

So for the people that don’t know the dangers, what can happen is this. (Now please remember, I am NO expert)
These batteries can go into what’s called “thermal runaway” and when this happens they initially give of at least three gasses (it may look like smoke but its far worse) all three are extremely poisonous and flammable, two are lighter than air and the third is heavier than air. Without looking it up again, I can only remember one of the gasses and its name will tell you all you need to know. It’s Hydrogen Cyanide, it is usually followed quickly by ignition of the gasses.

It’s also the speed at which it all happens, from the first sign there is a problem, to an explosion (although the expert has a different name for it!) can be a matter of seconds, so if you are in your bed onboard, you are in serious trouble.

Already a Norwegian ferry company has banned all EV’s including hybrid vehicles and I think thats just the start because fire fighting these is a big problem. In a video I found it said fire fighters took 36 hours to extinguish an electric car fire!

We have two Brompton folding bikes on board which I was planning to electrify this year but have now changed my mind. I still have my phone plus two Ipads, but that’s a risk I am prepared to take, now I know the dangers I will prepare for them.

I have attached a few links below, its up to you to do your own research, please do not shoot the messenger!

If you just do a search on YouTube and look for the “Lit & Phil” website (with a drawing of an elephant), it’s 1 hour 20 long but worth watching some of it. This link starts in the middle for some reason!

Norwegian Ferry company bans all Electric Vehicles including Hybrid.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...ps-208942.html

Take care
Colin McGinnis

Perhaps colin should educate himself before attempting to disseminate crap as information.

[CaptTom]

It's good to be among people who are quick to call BS on this sort of thing. I, too, am far from expert on battery chemistry. But I know enough to know how little I really know. Apparently the OP isn't at that level yet. Or possibly a troll, or just easily influenced by industry or political propaganda.

Anyway, a big thank-you to all who tried to educate us here. I know I've seen this all before, and forgotten most of it. But each time we have this discussion I understand it a little better, and a little more makes it into my long-term memory.

[tanglewood]

The OP's disclaimers about his lack of knowledge and expertise were well justified. He is indeed quite ignorant on the topic, and just spreading muck.


I just don't understand someone saying "I don't know what I'm talking about, but let me tell you how things are..." WTF?

[Cpt Mark]

Whe the f*ck uses Lithium Ion batteries on a boat? Lithium Iron Phosphate yes. On boats it is awesome and not the same chemistry of danger.

there ave been reports of fires on board where peoples Lithium Ion batteries got jostled and went up in flames. Power tools etc.

[Cwens]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I suspect the OP is a troll. He’s obviously trying to spread misinformation and confusion.

The only lithium batteries used on recreational boat house battery banks are Lithium Iron with a BMS. These batteries are less likely to catch fire than an AGM battery.

An ABYC group of experts recently tried to make a Lithium Iron battery catch fire - no amount of abuse started a fire - including hammering nails into the battery

Yes, the lithium batteries in cell phones and laptops can catch fire - but that has nothing to do with boats.

For max clarity, consider always saying "Lithium Iron Phosphate" or "LiFePO4" when referring to that battery technology. Yeah, it's a mouthful, but there's enough confusion and FUD out there already, and "Lithium Iron" is too easily mistaken for "Lithium Ion" (which is itself a vague designation, but that's a separate terminological rant)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Whe the f*ck uses Lithium Ion batteries on a boat?

Anyone who uses LiFePO4 batteries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithiu...sphate_battery

"The lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4 battery) or LFP battery (lithium ferrophosphate) is a type of lithium-ion battery"

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ChrisOwens

For max clarity, consider always saying "Lithium Iron Phosphate" or "LiFePO4" when referring to that battery technology. Yeah, it's a mouthful, but there's enough confusion and FUD out there already, and "Lithium Iron" is too easily mistaken for "Lithium Ion" (which is itself a vague designation, but that's a separate terminological rant)

Or better yet, just call them LFP

[FlyingScot]

One thing I got from the OP is that he is definitely not an expert.

What I can't understand is why someone who doesn't know much on the topic would:
A: Post anything on the topic that isn't asking questions and not telling.
B: Not educate themselves first before posting.
C: Search for numerous similar topics before posting.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

One thing I got from the OP is that he is definitely not an expert.

What I can't understand is why someone who doesn't know much on the topic would:
A: Post anything on the topic that isn't asking questions and not telling.
B: Not educate themselves first before posting.
C: Search for numerous similar topics before posting.

He should know more than he does. He's been told before:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3202752

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3202775

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by wholybee

How many times do we need to go over this?

This is a discussion forum so as many times as members ask. If it bores you, don't post.