The Dangers of Lipo Batteries

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

Good choice, it seems from all the incidents that lithium batteries are very dangerous and best avoided.

No they aren't.

[Chotu]

At least those those Fe4 batteries are still ok to use after reading this thread.

[OneBoatman]

So, when a Lithium battery, catches fire, keeping in mind there are several types, it is not the Lithium that poses the immediate danger, but when traveling these items go in the overhead bin not in the cargo hold. Got it.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Boatwright

Which brings up a point overlooked by many: All large storage batteries, no matter what the chemistry are storing large amounts of energy.

That is a key concept. And it's not just storage batteries. Stored energy in all its forms is nothing but an accident waiting to happen. Big clock spring, dammed up water, a spinning flywheel, a weight lifted high in the air, a flammable liquid, or a storage battery. All that energy is just itching to be released, usually with catastrophic consequences.

[LargeMarge]

Their tragedy starts far earlier than sitting in a vessel or vehicle.
.
Lithium mining uses children for laborers, in constant life-threatening exposure.
Their useful work-time is measured in months.
.
Phosphate/phosphorus accumulates in the bones of laborers, rotting the bones in an agonizing slow death.
.
Ethically and morally, I cannot be part of the individual and global disaster.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

Their tragedy starts far earlier than sitting in a vessel or vehicle.

.

Lithium mining uses children for laborers, in constant life-threatening exposure.

Their useful work-time is measured in months.

.

Phosphate/phosphorus accumulates in the bones of laborers, rotting the bones in an agonizing slow death.

.

Ethically and morally, I cannot be part of the individual and global disaster.

So suggest some proper alternatives.

Lead based batteries are not likely to be better, both in terms of lead mining, production and life cycle.
LiFePo4 last more cycles than lead acid.

Running a genset whenever you need power is not good for the environment either.

Running only solar & wind without batteries is neither practical, at least not for 95% of the cruising community.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

Their tragedy starts far earlier than sitting in a vessel or vehicle.
.
Lithium mining uses children for laborers, in constant life-threatening exposure.
Their useful work-time is measured in months.
.
Phosphate/phosphorus accumulates in the bones of laborers, rotting the bones in an agonizing slow death.
.
Ethically and morally, I cannot be part of the individual and global disaster.

Maybe you should check your data. I think you may be confusing lithium with colbalt mining in Africa

Lithium mining does NOT "use children for labourers". It's a high tech operation that involves either drilling, brine extraction and evaporation ponds (in China and South America) or ore drilling and processing (in the United States, Canada, and Australia)

Over half of the world's Lithium comes from Australia, and they certainly don't use child labour.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

Their tragedy starts far earlier than sitting in a vessel or vehicle.
.
Lithium mining uses children for laborers, in constant life-threatening exposure.
Their useful work-time is measured in months.
.
Phosphate/phosphorus accumulates in the bones of laborers, rotting the bones in an agonizing slow death.
.
Ethically and morally, I cannot be part of the individual and global disaster.

Large numbers of children have just been found to be working in meat packing plants here in the US. Have you become a vegan in response?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Franziska

So suggest some proper alternatives.

Lead based batteries are not likely to be better, both in terms of lead mining, production and life cycle.
LiFePo4 last more cycles than lead acid.

Running a genset whenever you need power is not good for the environment either.

Running only solar & wind without batteries is neither practical, at least not for 95% of the cruising community.

Lead batteries are about 80% recycled, lead plates and casing, at least in the US. Plenty of lead mining still going on to increase the stock of lead batteries in use.

Lithium recycling is just in its infancy, about 5% is recycled. Won't keep me from getting LiFePo when I'm ready to convert to EP, but I will do all I can to get the batteries to a recycler when I'm done with them.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by ColinIOM

....


Norwegian Ferry company bans all Electric Vehicles including Hybrid.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...ps-208942.html

Take care
Colin McGinnis

They are banned on that lines passenger ships which are not yet outfitted to deal with lithium fires. They are allowed on their cargo ships as it indicates down the the story you linked to.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Macdoug

I agree completely. I never plug my car in my garage at night. I plug it in my friend’s garage so I can burn his house down instead.

Seriously though, the risks from electric cars is tiny. Where do people get this crap from?

The risk from EVs is not any smaller than the risk from regular ICE vehicles, in fact it is somewhat larger since the fires need to be fought with different equipment and that equipment is not as generally available yet.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by StuM

Maybe you should check your data. I think you may be confusing lithium with colbalt mining in Africa

Lithium mining does NOT "use children for labourers". It's a high tech operation that involves either drilling, brine extraction and evaporation ponds (in China and South America) or ore drilling and processing (in the United States, Canada, and Australia)

Over half of the world's Lithium comes from Australia, and they certainly don't use child labour.

Stu, surely you aren't suggesting that our Large Marge might be wrong,or even worse "uneducated" in such matters.
No that couldn't be, would completely ruin the narrative.

[tkalfaoglu]

My ASUS notebook did the same -- the battery swelled up.. I used it like that for a while, but when I couldn't tap the touchpad anymore, I turned it around, unscrewed 10 screws, opened the back cover, found the "pillow", unscrewed its 4 screws, and removed it. Done!

[sailorboy1]

Given the dangerous things on a boat worrying about if a dangerous battery is or isn't more dangerous than another seems a waste of time.

[ColinIOM]

Well guys, I never expected that type of responses. And I’m sure the “normal guys” didn’t either. Why are a lot of you guys so angry? Did your wife leave you and take half? I left it for a while to allow people to do there own research (as stated in my article) and make your own mind up.
And no, YOU don't TELL me anything, these posts are or should be information for the reader to use as they see fit. They don’t need to be answered every single time, sometimes with irrelevant crap, just read and answer if there’s a question or make your own mind up and move on. Lets see if you warriors out there can actually read all the way to the end!

I knew this would be controversial but it is a disappointing to see some of the responses to say the least. You see, I (obviously wrongly) thought this was a self help discussion group and I stated that you take this info and do with it as you please! It was only information.

To the person who said the Norwegian ferry company don't take any cars is incorrect. The do take cars, they just make them do the full voyage, not part! Again, you have just not read the article have you? Again, you thought you knew better, wrong.

The moderator Adelie is Bang on! But by the look at some of your replies, it is an ongoing struggle for any moderator, when really, it’s just sailing (its a hobby) for christ sake.
I am a cruising yachtsman who lives on board with my wife for nearly 6 months during the summers, not a dreamer, not a lonely prick, not a keyboard warrior who puts up thousands of posts ( just look at the numbers! Get a life) but an actual cruising yachtsman and not a troll (I had to look that one up), I genuinely thought I was helping people.
There are clearly some very clever people on here also some genuine replies (but I noticed you also got hounded) but there are also an awful lot of idiots. From some of the better posts, there is a lot of very useful information, thank you, and there are still people learning from these posts. So clearly still needed.

You see,I am time server mechanical maintenance engineer. Im a great believer in having as much information as is available, I then use that information as it effects me and my boat.
If you are happy with your batteries and know the issues (if any) then fair enough, whats to get angry about? its your choice, and for those who wondered what type of batteries I have on my boat, its three Trojan lead acid, my choice.


But no, one of you called me a troll, some called me other names, some say Im ill informed, its really pathetic to see the “gang” mentality at work, sheep springs to mind, Im sure some of you were school bullies or maybe you were bullied, ahh, maybe I have hit the nail on the head!
I stated I was not and expert, well there are so many experts on here, Im surprised we have global warming at all, I'm sure some of you clowns can fix anything ( in your dreams) you probably run to the nearest marina for help when something goes wrong! I have seen such poisonous replies before but mainly on political websites, twitter and the likes, but never on a sailing forum, a first for me and Im sure a first for the few genuine guys on here.

I used (wrongly it seems) the term “LIPO” which is generic for Lithium Polymer”
which as one of the more observant of you found a response I did previously which included a small lipo battery going on fire in my garage, (a side issue and not in the same league as what I’m referring to here)
Some of you state “you've got no argument here” the thing is, Im not arguing anything with anyone, Im just showing you the evidence in a university article.

So let get down to business, the batteries in this University presentation (which most of you clearly never bothered to watch) is related to the types of batteries used in cars, busses and big power storage cells, so no, not LIPO or your phone but did included Lithium-iron.
Of which, as stated there are a number of chemical make ups. Now someone said on here that the ones used on board yachts are “lithium Iron Phosphate” LFP. This is one of the chemical compositions referenced to in this presentation! Plus, if you care to look on https://www.sciencedirect.com you will find a lot of research being done on thermal runway which includes LPF which I will admit, is a lot better than others but its still being researched as we speak. So it is NOT a done deal. (Scientists words, not mine)

Now if you have these on your boat, your choice but I suggest you go back to the original post and watch it, and FFS do your own research.

Yours Amused
Colin