Tesla House Battery

[FlyingScot]

I would consider a Nissan Leaf battery before the Tesla or Chevy Bolt just due to cooling requirements, or lack thereof.

I also clicked thinking you were going to discuss the Tesla Powerwall https://www.tesla.com/powerwall.

-Chris

[a64pilot]

I Contemplated Prius packs as there are so many of them available and prices are therefore lower.
I also contemplated a DC generator, a massive battery bank and huge inverter, but decided at the end, why?

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Melissa36

Also, research Tesla Radiant Energy, the Secrets of Cold War Technology pdf and feandft dot com since there are a lot of errors and psyops in the Secrets of Cold War Technology book. For starters, the nuclear atom model is bogus. The universe functions in vortices (as well as the sine wave), one of the esoteric meanings of the spiraling serpent. (Vortices are what cause the tides, not the moon according to Oahspe.) Next, the nuclear bombs were psyops. What they did was probably carpet bombing. Thirdly, what they refer to as the "ether/aether" is inert gases, but that could just be semantics. The periodic table is a spiral as Walter Russell's books explain. The inert gases are in the center. Other parts of the book are questionable, but chapter 1 on Tesla and radiant energy is important.

Vortices were discredited by Izaac Newton.

You would have to drop an enormous amount of carpets to equal the effect of one decent sized nuke.

The ether is real and inhabited by green politicians when they are not cohabiting with the fairies at the bottom of the garden.

The periodic table is a hoax perpetrated by the mad Russian Rasputin.

[hellosailor]

Other considerations? Tesla uses strings of 18650's for a number of technical reasons, instead of larger prismatic packs. One of those has to do with thermal control and fire control, the idea being that if one cell catches fire, it does limited damage. I don't know if or how much the active cooling system plays a role in containing that, preventing the fire from affecting neighboring cells. But then again, if one cell in a series chain were to internally short-circuit, even gently, that would expose the rest of the chain to higher charging voltages, which in turn could cause a larger fire risk.

How that plays out in real life, whether it can be ignored or it is a real issue, you'd probably need to speak to an engineer to get a better idea of how they have assessed those risks.

The fact that their pack design is different from the main body of the EV/traction industry says that there must be issues that are not obvious to the layman. Perhaps superior, perhaps not.

I suspect the supplier will give you an answer much like a boat broker does: The facts are intended to be real, but there's no guarantee that *their* supplier knows or told the real story either, so they're just representing the battery packs "as is", warranteed or not. A well-sealed battery and battery pack in low conductivity water (fresh water flooding) shouldn't take too much damage from it. A battery pack that took a 100G shock load from a crash impact, ah, that might be more problematic. And impossible to see.

Theo, if you have a '12' volt alternator and that's going to be the source for a '24' volt battery? Might as well have the alternator replaced, or rewound (simple job) so it puts out 24v and charges directly, with just a downconverter for the 12 devices. Simpler, less waste, more reliable.

It is nice to have backup systems, but as you double the number of systrems, the failure rate quadruples. It goes up as the square, not linearly. I had a car with a low oil pressure cut-off switch once. The idea was, if there was no oil pressure, the fuel supply would be cut and the engine couldn't be damaged.

And one day the car wouldn't start, low oil pressure alert. Don't you know, it was the lousy $20 sensor-switch that was the problem, the oil pressure was just fine. Can we have a show of hands for all the boaters who have had high temperature switches/gauges fail? Oil pressure? Tach or voltage? Thermostat fail in the engine, or a new one of any of those simply DOA? Those things gang up on you.(G)

[John Casey]

Originally Posted by Melissa36

Next, the nuclear bombs were psyops. What they did was probably carpet bombing.

Interesting.

So I should look for the "increase carpet bombing" end of the rheostat next time I'm in the nuclear (read: fission) power plant control room?

[Melissa36]

Originally Posted by John Casey

Interesting.

So I should look for the "increase carpet bombing" end of the rheostat next time I'm in the nuclear (read: fission) power plant control room?

Which is "increasing the radiation". Not a good idea for health. Make sure to consume probiotic fermented foods to help to neutralize the radiation that you would be giving yourself.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Do the vortices contain light or dark crystals?

Of course not. They use dilithium crystals to power the warp drive....uhh oh...is that really di-lithium and almost related to lithium batteries?

[getyourbone]

Just installed about 5 kWh of Chevy volt batteries in the boat and waiting on a a couple of kWh’s of Nissan Leaf cells to arrive to install.

Intended system:

2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from chevy volt dedicated to 12v water maker.
2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from Chevy volt dedicated to 12v refrigeration.
2 kWh @ 48v from Nissan Leaf run through inverter for ac power...will increase to about 12kwh eventually to run small air conditioner.

Not a cheap install as the batteries alone have cost almost $1500.00 for 7 kWh. Controllers, step down’s and inverters about another 700.00 and an extra 570 Watts (1100 total so far) were about 600 with fittings.

Almost $3000.00 after some wire and connectors.

Comments on cooling battery packs... absolutely not needed! The amp drain on these packs re designed for levels 20 times what they will ever see on a boat. If you are going to try to make yer boat do 0-60 in 10 seconds maybe consider one...otherwise not much of a concern.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by getyourbone

Just installed about 5 kWh of Chevy volt batteries in the boat and waiting on a a couple of kWh’s of Nissan Leaf cells to arrive to install.

Intended system:

2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from chevy volt dedicated to 12v water maker.
2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from Chevy volt dedicated to 12v refrigeration.
2 kWh @ 48v from Nissan Leaf run through inverter for ac power...will increase to about 12kwh eventually to run small air conditioner.

Not a cheap install as the batteries alone have cost almost $1500.00 for 7 kWh. Controllers, step down’s and inverters about another 700.00 and an extra 570 Watts (1100 total so far) were about 600 with fittings.

Almost $3000.00 after some wire and connectors.

Comments on cooling battery packs... absolutely not needed! The amp drain on these packs re designed for levels 20 times what they will ever see on a boat. If you are going to try to make yer boat do 0-60 in 10 seconds maybe consider one...otherwise not much of a concern.

Can you explain why you went with multiple banks as opposed to one big bank?

[getyourbone]

Well I guess there are multiple reason if I really think about it but...


- Redundancy is one reason...
I am using “cheap” components and not sure how long they will last. While I am confident in this working, I will be the first to admit it is a bit of an experiment and don’t completely understand exactly how all the parts will handle working with each other. Finally, components are not absolutely optimally sized for each other.

- helps keep wire size down.
1 - 285 watt mono panel mounted on Davits with a 12 gauge run to a controller that boosts the charge from the panels ~ 30v 10 amp up to 49.5v max for the 12s3p layout of the Chevy module(too difficult to rip apart and reconfigure into a more common 13 or 14s as they are welded and glued). Because of 48 v, only minimal amps, (the charge controller can only handle 600 Watts) and the battery is right next to it, the wire size in only 12 or 14 gauge to the battery. A small(360 watt) step down 48v to 12v converter is next to the battery to provide an Engel icebox conversion kit system with 12v. I will likely run another supply for another 12v fridge and some usb charging off the same drop down converter as fridges only ask for about 75 watts figuring in losses along the way.

A second panel and similar setup is for the water maker...draws about 20 amps @ 12v so the same model of step down converter should work...but may upgrade to a higher capacity one to provide more headroom for starting?...Plan on contacting spectra.

The above equipment(other than the solar) with a usable energy capacity of 2.3 kWh takes up less than a cubic foot of space and weighs less than a typical 12v batter. It is very easy to have where the power is needed.

- The nissan modules wil come 2s2p @ 7.6v. 7 of these will be put together to make a “48v” voltage my inverter will handle better than the too low “48v” 12s of the chevy. These will be on a third panel on the davits. Run of 12 gauge again. Battery, controller right next to inverter to keep wire size and losses down any long run within be done on the ac(vs dc). A bit less of an issue with 48v but still valid and important.

I have been in contact with the inverter manufacturer and thinking of having an inverter spec’d to the Chevy voltage but as of now have been unable to find a “cheap” inverter that falls within the range of a 12s lithium battery. I am sure someone out there must currently manufacture one but because I already had a couple and could just make Nissan Leaf modules work, I didn’t really look to hard.

Ironically, in my way of thinking, it keeps things simple...



Just my 2 cents...

[john61ct]

Well you def qualify as electrical pioneer of the year in my book, watch out for the arrows!

Have you got redundant failsafe protection in place against overheating?

What does your insurance have to say?

[senormechanico]

What size and type of boat is getting this setup?

[getyourbone]

Failsafe...a work in progress.
A fuse will keep the solar panel from going outside it’s degined parameters.
There will be a couple over-voltage charging stops to keep the controller from trying to charge the battery past a conservative maximum voltage.
Each of the controllers/inverters/converters have their own fuses.
I am still working on an under voltage protection to keep the devices from draining the battery too lowr. Obviously a all-in-one bms system would take care of most or all of these protections but would like to try and find a more “off the shelf “ way in case specialty parts are too hard to come by/expensive.

Insurance...working on it. While I have no intention in hiding anything, I also do not plan to put nuclear hazard stickers with neon signs all over it either. Let the surveyor do their job when it comes time...See what they notice/ask/comment/document.

Boat...1983 Prout snow goose 37...small cat. Existing electrical was a bit of a nightmare so not much of a chance making anything any worse.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by getyourbone

Just installed about 5 kWh of Chevy volt batteries in the boat and waiting on a a couple of kWh’s of Nissan Leaf cells to arrive to install.

Intended system:

2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from chevy volt dedicated to 12v water maker.
2 1/2 kWh @ 48v from Chevy volt dedicated to 12v refrigeration.
2 kWh @ 48v from Nissan Leaf run through inverter for ac power...will increase to about 12kwh eventually to run small air conditioner.

Not a cheap install as the batteries alone have cost almost $1500.00 for 7 kWh. Controllers, step down’s and inverters about another 700.00 and an extra 570 Watts (1100 total so far) were about 600 with fittings.

Almost $3000.00 after some wire and connectors.

Comments on cooling battery packs... absolutely not needed! The amp drain on these packs re designed for levels 20 times what they will ever see on a boat. If you are going to try to make yer boat do 0-60 in 10 seconds maybe consider one...otherwise not much of a concern.

my big question would be what is the specific chemistry of the battery out of the volt? The battery from the leaf is lithium ion manganese oxide which has the potential for thermal run away.

[406Columbia]

A family member works for Tesla, I mentioned to them I wanted to buy one of these. They told me in no uncertain terms to "DONT BUY ONE". Said they are having many issues with these and got into more detail which I wont mention on a public forum. Keep in mind this was a year ago so maybe things have changed. However when you wouldn't want to buy one yourself nor your family to spend hard earned money on one that's a bold statement.

I am waiting until this family member gives me the thumbs up to purchase. Love the idea but not the price and not the issues that were mentioned.