Switch from 12V to 220/110V for internal lights and appliances?

[Rumrace]

The reason why cheap leds burn out flicker and what not is they are run on a choke driver or just a resistor on a 12V line. Great LED systems run on constant voltage power supplies. They provide a heathy pulse rate above 160htz. Same goes for most appliances. The transformers have 120/220 50/60 hrs. Some have contacts for either or some now have auto sensing. My boat came with everything LED. It’s real low grade crap from yesterday I’m slowly replacing with quality pieces. They were old halogen light adapted to led. Light fixtures are designed around the light source. It’s a measurement declared on an independent lab report as to the CU of a given fixture. Great products today allow recessed fixtures with low glare in a tiny ceiling cavity.
Lighting controls climate control monitoring all have some wonderful new connectivity including voltage.

[Chuck34]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

Welcome to the world outside of (mostly) the Americas!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_...ity_by_country

Yes, I am well aware that a good portion of the world has different electrical standards than the US, but the OP was asking about 110 and 220. I’m guessing he’s not looking to combine US standards of 60 Hz to European standards of 50 Hz. I’m also guessing that often people use 110 and 120 interchangeably as well as 220 and 240, but you can’t use 50 and 60 Hz interchangeably.

[SoonerSailor]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

The reason why cheap leds burn out flicker and what not is they are run on a choke driver or just a resistor on a 12V line. Great LED systems run on constant voltage power supplies.

Not quite true. LEDs die when they do not have efficient sinking of their waste heat. This is particularly true of light fixtures not designed specifically for LEDs. Voltage spikes can kill them too. LEDs run best on a constant current driver. A constant voltage driver can still destroy an LED if current is not limited. As an LED heats up, it’s “resistance” can fall dramatically. If voltage is held constant, current can increase, causing more heat and less resistance, etc etc until self destruction. This is known as thermal runaway. LEDs can be driven safely with a current limiting resistor alone, but that is typically less efficient than with a good constant current driver due to power loss in the resistor, particularly so if the resistance is high enough to provide a good margin of safety from voltage spikes. An advantage of using a current limiting resistor alone is that it creates no radio frequency interference, which can be a problem with many electronic LED drive circuits.

[anaif03]

Thank you all for your feedback!

[RedneckRedcoat]

And there is me trying to convert all my 110v to 12v. If I can find a 12v version of it it’s installed. Now to find a 12v microwave and a 12v ice maker. CPap machine recently converted to 12v all lights converted to 12v LED. All Phone, laptop and camera systems converted to 12v

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

...Now to find a 12v microwave and a 12v ice maker...

We also use 12V for anything we can. But at this point you're probably better off just using an inverter for those two 120V appliances. We use a countertop ice maker which works surprisingly well. It doesn't have a refrigerated compartment so it runs easily on the inverter. Of course a microwave is only used for a few minutes at a time. Again, no problem for the inverter.

But if you really want to go 12V, check out a truck stop. They sell all kinds of 12V cooking appliances for the big rigs.

[Colin Stone]

I use battery voltage, 24v, for everthing I can. There is no point having a probable sizeable inverter just wasting power for small loads. So DC LED lighting, DC pumps, fridge, freezer and satellite receiver. I would get a DC 28 inch TV if I could find one.

[RedneckRedcoat]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

We also use 12V for anything we can. But at this point you're probably better off just using an inverter for those two 120V appliances. We use a countertop ice maker which works surprisingly well. It doesn't have a refrigerated compartment so it runs easily on the inverter. Of course a microwave is only used for a few minutes at a time. Again, no problem for the inverter.

But if you really want to go 12V, check out a truck stop. They sell all kinds of 12V cooking appliances for the big rigs.

We have a 3000watt inverter and a table top ice maker but I’d rather use 12v where I can

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Colin Stone

There is no point having a probable sizeable inverter just wasting power for small loads.

Right. We use 12V for all small loads, too. Not really worried about losses running the inverter for a few minutes for the microwave. We make sure everything is unplugged when not in use on the 120V side. The inverter barely takes any power on standby. If necessary, I can turn it off.

I agree ice is a very nice luxury to have aboard. But I wouldn't run a full-sized ice maker when away from shore power. I use the counter top one and put the ice in the freezer. One batch fills a gallon-size bag and then some.

[sailingharry]

I certainly agree that the vast majority of loads are best run on 12 volts.

But I have long pondered a counterculture exception. Exceptionally high load devices are ideal candidates for higher voltages. Since nearly every cruising boat has a modestly powered and highly reliable inverter, I would think that 120 volt windless and electric winches would be a huge win. Significantly smaller wires, and potentially smaller and less expensive motors. I guess one downside is some AC motors have very low stall torque, while DC motors have exceptional stall torque. But I don't think that applies to the series wound versions like an electric drill, but only to the squirrel cage driven style.

There isn't even a high risk from increased complexity. If it should fail, these two devices can still be done by hand. I wouldn't dream of replacing the engine starter, another very high current device, because the risk there would be too high.

I know it is counterculture, and I won't start a revolution. But it is still a ponder.

[PineyWoodsPete]

We have full-time 120V AC for the all-electric galley, HVAC and four duplex outlets, with 5kW inverter, but 12V for all else, including windlass and thrusters. I would be very wary about an exposed sea-washed 120V windlass, even with remote...

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by PineyWoodsPete

We have full-time 120V AC for the all-electric galley, HVAC and four duplex outlets, with 5kW inverter, but 12V for all else, including windlass and thrusters. I would be very wary about an exposed sea-washed 120V windlass, even with remote...

The electrics in my windlass never see salt water. While there would be no safety issues, I think it is safe to say that a 12 volt motor system would do very poorly if it got wet with seawater! The controls are already 12 volt switches driving relays, so the change to 120 would be transparent. But I don't completely discount your concern, there is at least some risk.

But it sure would be nice to run #12 or even be first rate and run #10, instead of 4/0 from the back of the boat to the front of the boat! The savings and weight, space, cost, and labor would be substantial.

[wingssail]

We wired our boat completely, not because the old wiring was bad, there was no wiring previously.

For simplicity we wired the boat for 12v. All of our lighting and ventilation runs on 12v. This means that there are no conversion losses between the battery and the electrical device.

We did bring in 120vac for the battery charger and we installed three 120v outlets: Nav station, Vanity/head, and galley. That covers all the appliances we might want to have.

There is an inverter which is included in the battery charger so when shore power is not present the outlets are powered by the inverter.

To reduce the "standby" drain of the big inverter, we have a small inverter in the nav station for computer, phones, etc. They plug right into the inverter. outlet.

We spent 12 years in the land of 240VAC (sometimes 220, sometimes 230) but we used no 220-240 appliances, we kept using 120vac appliances. At the shore power connection we have a transformer which will accept 240 in (or 220 or 230, and some others) and put out 120 (or 110 or several others). So even when hooked up to 240vac, the boat still runs on 120. The 50/60hz was never an issue.

[PineyWoodsPete]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

The electrics in my windlass never see salt water. While there would be no safety issues, I think it is safe to say that a 12 volt motor system would do very poorly if it got wet with seawater! The controls are already 12 volt switches driving relays, so the change to 120 would be transparent. But I don't completely discount your concern, there is at least some risk.

But it sure would be nice to run #12 or even be first rate and run #10, instead of 4/0 from the back of the boat to the front of the boat! The savings and weight, space, cost, and labor would be substantial.

While there's a slim chance the 12V windlass electrics might get seawater-soaked, at least it's not potentially lethal to touch!

I've got a 100A AGM near the bow dedicated to supply both windlass and bow-thruster. The cabling to both is impressive!

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Colin Stone

I use battery voltage, 24v, for everthing I can. There is no point having a probable sizeable inverter just wasting power for small loads. So DC LED lighting, DC pumps, fridge, freezer and satellite receiver. I would get a DC 28 inch TV if I could find one.

Cello Electronics UK
https://celloelectronics.com/shop-te...e=traveller-tv
24" and 32" 12v not 24v