Stray Current / GFCI Problem

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

So when it start's tripping again, start unplugging things and see if the tripping goes away. I'm thinking the dorm fridge or laptop power supply might be a problem. I actually am leaning toward the laptop power supply perhaps having a leaky capacitor. That or a intermittent short to ground at the fridge compressor,which would be odd.

Three cheers for sailorchic34, you are a superbadass in my book!!!

Sitting here minding my own business, when my trusty Haier Brand dorm fridge, which never fails to freeze my greens while keeping my beverages moderately warm, cycles on and two seconds later, click!

For the first time ever it's the outlet the fridge is plugged into. I reset, fridge cycles on, a minute later it trips back at the main board.

I'm guessing the capacitor provides the go-go to get the compressor moving. Is this an obtainable and replaceable part? Or is this thing no like so much consumer junk, not worth repairing?

Thanks! Drinks on me!

[sabray]

Now my warning. Having just just lost a dear friend do to a shorted 110 sump pump.
He most likely plugged the pump into a gfci. The gfci tripped. Probably felt the gfci was bad. Sump pumps are routinely plugged into non gfci outlets. He then plugged it into his garage. Goes back to the pump but it's not pumping. Reached into the water to hit the float switch and was electrocuted. There was bad wiring in the garage. The sub panel was not wired with a proper safety ground and common was not tied to the safety ground. My friend died because someone took a short cut and he made a normal but faulty conclusion and the 3prong device had no ground wire to ground out the circuit. Hope someone heard this and thinks before assuming. Also never put your hand in a sump pit with a live 110 circuit submerged in water. Unplug it first.


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[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by smac999

30ma would kill you in a heart beat. the deadly number is a lot closer to 5 then 30.
.

I am sorry; that is not true and I provide evidence below.

That sort of confusion leads people to use RCDs/GFIs that are too sensitive, hence they have nuisance trips, hence people bypass them and die as sabray´s friend. A 30mA whole-house RCD such as required in many countries would have saved the life of sabray´s friend. At most he would have had seized arm muscles for the 40 microseconds the RCD took to trip.

Many people (including myself, more than once and by my or someone else´s mistake and poor practice) have tripped a 30mA RCD/GFI when touching a hot wire and have not died. Isn´t that enough evidence? RCD salespeople have done that for "effect" many times.

Most developed countries, including most of Europe, consider 30mA acceptable protection, and in a decent installation nuisance trips are not an issue at that level. I am talking about respectable countries ranging form Germany to Brazil. If you want to read this in international standard look at IEC 60479, which considers 30mA adequate to protect against death by heart fibrillation and 10mA to protect against not being able to "let go" a live part, which is uncomfortable but not lethal.

If you want similar data from a US source you can look at the fourth slide in http://www.nema.org/Products/Documen...esentation.pdf

If you prefer a graph look at the following page from Schneider Electric and see the chart that tells you that the probability of fibrillation after 40 milliseconds (standard time sensitivity of an RCD) only starts at 500mA.

Electric shock - Electrical Installation Guide

The same chart tells you that with 30mA the probability of fibrillation only starts to appear after more than 10000 miliseconds ie 10 seconds, which is way longer than the 40 milliseconds it takes for the GFI/RCD to operate. I feel tempted to make a bad joke about botched executions but that would not be appropriate given the post upthread.

The only reason to go down to 5mA is not to avoid deaths; it is to avoid discomfort and muscle seizures that last less than 1/10 of a second, but that happens at the cost of nuisance trips and not covering the whole wiring system, which leads to accidents such as the one mentioned upthread.

[Delancey]

sabray, thanks for sharing. sorry for your loss. that sucks.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Three cheers for sailorchic34, you are a superbadass in my book!!!

Sitting here minding my own business, when my trusty Haier Brand dorm fridge, which never fails to freeze my greens while keeping my beverages moderately warm, cycles on and two seconds later, click!

For the first time ever it's the outlet the fridge is plugged into. I reset, fridge cycles on, a minute later it trips back at the main board.

I'm guessing the capacitor provides the go-go to get the compressor moving. Is this an obtainable and replaceable part? Or is this thing no like so much consumer junk, not worth repairing?

Thanks! Drinks on me!

Could be a blown capacitor or a wire internal to the compressor motor, who's insulation is worn and touching the grounded motor frame.

The capacitor you can check with a volt Ohm meter, after shorting the terminals with a insulated screwdriver and with the fridge unplugged. Check for continuity between each terminal and case. Also check between terminals, where the ohm's should rise slowly as the VO battery charges the capacitor. If that checks good, then you have motor issues. You can also check for continuity between each wire and case of compressor. Again with the fridge unplugged.

EDIT: Oh, Last it could be heavy ice buildup near the line voltage T-stat causing enough leakage to trip a GFI

[Delancey]

You're the best! I'll have a look. Xo

[Neo]

Originally Posted by sabray

Now my warning. Having just just lost a dear friend do to a shorted 110 sump pump.
He most likely plugged the pump into a gfci. The gfci tripped. Probably felt the gfci was bad. Sump pumps are routinely plugged into non gfci outlets. He then plugged it into his garage. Goes back to the pump but it's not pumping. Reached into the water to hit the float switch and was electrocuted. There was bad wiring in the garage. The sub panel was not wired with a proper safety ground and common was not tied to the safety ground. My friend died because someone took a short cut and he made a normal but faulty conclusion and the 3prong device had no ground wire to ground out the circuit. Hope someone heard this and thinks before assuming. Also never put your hand in a sump pit with a live 110 circuit submerged in water. Unplug it first.


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Thanks so much for the advisory. You certainly got my attention.