Sticker shock on marine generators

[a64pilot]

Cost is the overriding reason you see so many Honda’s. Mine can run anything on my boat, just can’t run multiple things, for about $1,000.
I think my Nexgen 3.5 goes for about $6,000 but by the time it’s installed your likely looking at $8,000 roughly.
So it becomes tough to justify a Diesel unit in.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It does seem out of line.
The big thing I suppose is the water cooling system that marine units have.
But you know, I bought a popular brand Chinese home generator, electric start 4500 watts.

I do use non alcohol gas in it. They should make a water cooled version for marine. The only reason you cant use a Honda 2000 in a locker is the air cooling.

Gas generator inside is not a good idea because of gasoline fumes/explosion hazard.

[Montanan]

For all the reasons listed above as to diesel and gasoline powered genset, is one of the primary reasons why solar has grown market share on cruising boats.
Sure makes one appreciate the convenience and reliability and low cost of land based electric power utilities.

When one adds the term Marine to a device one also experiences an escalation in its costs compared to most terrestrial versions, ballpark 150% to 200%, because of the unique design and engineering factors and standards involved and because the marine sector is so tiny. The demand is almost non-existent in comparison to land based applications and the distribution channels generally do not overlap considerably.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Gas generator inside is not a good idea because of gasoline fumes/explosion hazard.

Ever heard of the Atomic 4? or... damn near every SeaRay and Bayliner on the planet? :>)

[grahamj]

You already have the diesel power source. Get a 300 amp alternator.

[AKA-None]

Also remember that a land based one usually sits outside your house not in it. So noise, cooling, safety measures are completely different.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Rohan

I never needed a generator before, but now will likely need one for some upcoming plans.

I thought I had a pretty good idea of pricing based on what I know of portable generators, but OMG I was wrong. The difference is staggering. Compare these two generators, which are roughly the same kw of power - the marine one costs TEN TIMES more than the portable generator. The difference is not always that extreme, but at a minimum, it looks like a marine generator costs at least four times what a comparable portable one costs.

But why?? Even if that price of the marine generator includes a sound shield, installation, and additional corrosion protection, it still doesn't justify a price tag 4-10x higher. Quality doesn't justify the difference either, since I could have replace the cheaper unit several times before it would reach the cost of the expensive one.

Related question. Marine generators use water cooling. It is necessary to create yet another thru hull? Can I instead piggyback off an existing one? I would rather not add another hole to the boat if it can be avoided.

You never mentioned what that upcoming plan was so answers here won't help you much. Perhaps you need to rethink it. I got rid of my genset and went solar.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[PHR]

I have a great diesel generator. It's a Fisher Panda 10,5 kw, and in encased in a nice quiet case, sits under the floor, has its own thru-hull and water cooling system, and it works usually without problem. I looked at replacing it after a few issues, and a replacement started around $20,000. Crazy prices, but great for offshore power when it all works right.

[Squanderbucks]

Like most boat projects installing a generator can be self done providing you have the tools and the working experience to deal with all that is required. Setting up the location for it in your boat that will allow servicing and repairs when needed and the electrical expertise to do the hookup to your present system
If you don't currently have alternate power systewms you will need some form of switching to change over from Shore Power to off to Genset power. My boat uses a 3 way rotary selector. I did all this yeas ago with the help of a friend that had all the A-frames and come-a -longs we needed to safely lift and position the generator.

If you don't have that stuff it will either have to be purchased or have somebody professional do it. Replacing and existing generator is one thing - drop in - and hook back up. Easy peasy. But if your boat never had one then that is a whole different ball game. A lot more time to setup = more billable hours.

[Siberian Sea]

Semi trucks often have what they call an “APU unit” , that auxiliary power unit. They use these small diesel generators to run air conditioners in the summer and sleeper/engine heaters in the winter. Small portable and liquid cooled they are ideal to install in your boat. New ones are expensive but..... trucks get wrecked and there are yards that disassemble crashed trucks and sell off the parts cheap. You might want to look online at some of these units.

[psp2psp2]

You might want to rethink whatever plans you had that included a generator. I had a generator on board our last boat. It was a Fischer Panda 4Kva installed during the build (I bought the boat secondhand but hardly used) and necessary to run a high-output water maker, washing machine and a few other 220v appliances- all of which were non-essential luxuries. The generator was great when everything was running smoothly, but it gave me trouble on a regular basis:
- starter motor burned out twice
- starter relay failed
- remote panel had to be replaced
- raw water pump leaked and I couldn’t find a replacement, had to find someone who could rebuild it 2 or 3 times
- the generator exhaust was NEVER CLEAN and left ugly black streaks on the gel coat despite me constantly changing and cleaning filters, recalibrating the injector etc

None of these repairs and maintenance issues were easy, partly due to the soundproof capsule which housed the thing. One of my wife’s most vivid memories of life on this particular yacht (we lived aboard for several years) was of me constantly dismantling and messing with the generator.

In short, on the subsequent boat I was determined not to have a generator, in fact my motto has become, “One boat, twelve volts”. Today you can install a great water maker running off 12v, the washing machine I can do without! Battery technology has improved and solar panels are more efficient today.

I sail happily without a generator!

myageofsail.com

[Peeew]

I was lucky that I bought my secondhand boat with a Cummins/ Onan generator installed from factory. Kabota engine inside. Really quiet and never a problem yet. If I didn’t have one I suspect that I would look at a portable gas generator. But I have to enjoy the quiet one I have. No matter what people claim I never like anchoring near a boat with a portable. I see why some people start it up to charge batteries and then leave the boat.

[wingssail]

There are trade-offs for each solution.

For us the choices were:

1. Diesel genset: high reliability of the basic diesel engine and electric head VS cost, complexity of the installation, weight, space, and reports of maintenance issues. We couldn't imagine doing this on our 43' boat.

2. Portable genset (like a Honda 2000): High reliability, simple installation, cheap to purchase and run, and easily replaceable VS space for it, weight added to the boat, and noise, and need for another fuel on board. We tried one (Honda 1000) and found it noisy and it wouldn't run our battery charger at full power.

3. Large capacity Alternator on the main engine: simple, quiet (compared to portable) least weight, no additional fuel needed to be carried VS theoretical additional wear on the main engine, We chose this option as it suited our priority on light and simple, however we have had frequent issues with alternator and regulator life. We carry plenty of spares.

4: Acres of solar panels. Free power and mostly problem free, not too expensive, quiet VS the impact of putting the equivalent of a helicopter landing pad on your boat and the weight of that and the impact aerodynamically on sailing performance, as well as visually. Plus, it only works when the sun is shining. You'll need a big battery and inverter.

Of course we do have solar, but limited (270watts) and a good inverter to run AC appliances when the engine is off.

One might question our choice in light of the recent oil pressure problems on our engine, meaning we might have worn it out charging the batteries, but with 6600 hours on the engine (over 6000 from charging alone) we now have determined that our oil pressure is still actually very good and we see no indication of further problems with the engine. I think our choice has been validated based on our priorities. I would do it again.

[Culwatty]

I am actually planning to fit a generator head behind the engine and drive it off a modified front pulley similar to the supercharger belts on an electronic clutch. 10kva head with avr £400 is on ebay, can make the rest myself (could even use timing belts from a car and associated pulleys,

Well thats another idea added to my list thanks you just saved me a few bucks!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Well, even if the engine is air cooled, you'll still need water cooling for the exhaust for safety. Unless you have an arrangement for a insulated dry stack somehow.

I have wondered before if a wet exhaust just using an electric water pump could be employed on an air cooled generator. Seems feasible with a heat sensor T stat for if the pump fails. You'd need forced air cooling in a locker maybe though...
I built a few small diesel gen's that were 12V. Thought about trying it with an electric pump, but a belt water pump is so easy to do...
Watermaker Gen combo, but I built smaller ones too...

I should think that a radiator cooled diesel genset could have a heat exchanger and raw water pump add. A financial advantage?