Starting seems to put huge drain on battery? Won't crank...

[Bill_Giles]

Check the simple things first. Battery connections through to starter. And on a car the first thing would be the starter earth if it is not the battery.

[allene222]

I had similar issues with my boat twice. Once when the boat yard installed a new exhaust system and the engine would get flooded with sea water because they didn't run the hose correctly. Your engine is likely not raw water cooled so probably not that. The second time was with a blown head gasket and water in the cylinder from that. But it is probably electrical and easy to see with a voltmeter on the starter main connection and battery negative terminal. If it is low, just trace the circuit back with the voltmeter.

You want the connection between the solenoid and the starter. Then the connection to the solenoid. You might have a bad solenoid. You can also put the voltmeter across the solenoid and see if you are getting voltage drop there.

[Shaneesprit]

Ok
Batteries and starters

1) unlikely to be the starter or glow plugs.
2) I didn’t see you state the battery type? Please tell me you are using starting batteries and not batteries for a house bank? This is my prime suspect after reading your posts. Because it sounds like you created this issue by fitting new batteries?
3) if the cabin lights are dim while starting them your start and house bank are linked? Bad idea .
4) new batteries- so you did wire brush the termination before fitting? Not doing so can damage a battery post.

So what else do you need to know.

5) Battery cables are normally sized by resistance. But basically on an engine keep the battery and starter motor as close together as practical, if they are not almost side by side then you need. Larger cables, to reduce the resistance.

So what is the length of the cables from battery to starter and back to the battery?

[fireant]

Didn't read all the responses.
Before you do anything on digging into the system. You need to break it down to a parts, electrical / mechanical
First battery voltage with the charger off and battery sits for 30 min or longer to get battery rest voltage. you cant test it with the charger on. Good battery should have min of 12.65v
When cranking battery voltage?
If it drops below 9.6v check battery might be bad
battery ok? check voltage at the starter. You want to make sure the voltage matches within 0.5v of battery voltage while cranking. If within specs next step starter. Does starter do anything? click? try to turn the engine over? If starter do nothing pull it out to make sure its not stuck and bench test it as it might have a dead short, While starter is out see if you can turn the engine over easy.
If there is more then 0.5v difference in voltage, check resistance in the circuit.
best way to test is voltage drop under load. start at the battery and move away.
Each connection should not have more the 0.1 voltage drop. one circuit shouldn't have more then 0.5 total drop under load.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

It would be very useful to rotate the engine manually using a bar and socket.
This would determine whether the engine was unusually tight to rotate due to internal friction or hydro locking.

If it's hydro locked it won't rotate at all..

[topmast]

If it comes to benchtesting the starter. Let me tell you of an 'older' starter. Bearings had worn out (oval) and the rotor would jam magnetically against the field windings. Many peculiar symptoms were included. Many of my motors were late '40s. Highly unlikely in a newer engine.but an open mind ....

[musicengineer]

Didn't find copper oxide in the thread.
Put test pins from a voltmeter on the tops of the lead posts of the battery.
Turn on the switch, and does the voltage drop (even before you glow plug)?
the voltage appears to reach 13.8 when you are charging.
the most challenging thing I ever figured out was a copper oxide connection in the charging circuit.
the current only charged the battery, but would put out much when the starting load was applied.
If the voltage measured at the actual battery posts drops when you flip on the switch, you are applying a load to the batteries, but it the lights dim and the terminal voltage doesn't drop measured at the terminals, you could have a copper oxide (called a diode!) and might elude you.
Chic (musicengineer, GEM) 610-388-7903

[dmkkeng]

Lots of good info in this thread however it is hard to provide assistance without fully understanding the configuration of your system and how you are using it. Also as some have already indicated, you need to do some trouble shooting using proper test equipment. As a start you should equip yourself with a digital multimeter.

From what I understand, the batteries and starter were replaced. Your alternator appears to be working, this is based on the 14v indication you mentioned. Have you confirmed that your 20 amp charger is working? When the charger is connected to the battery does it increase battery voltage?

You have a start battery and house battery, how are they connected to your charging sources? Are your batteries being properly charged?

As previously indicated a good first step is checking your wiring and connections. Often bad connections only show up under high current draw conditions such as starting your engine. A bad connection is typically caused by corrosion however it could also be caused by a loose or oxidized terminal or a washer that is between the conducting surfaces.

A good second step is to confirm your electrical system is configured/ connected properly.

Third step is to start trouble shooting the problem. You may have more than one problem, also it is possible the new batteries or starter could be defective.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Icarus

If it's hydro locked it won't rotate at all..

Correct, perhaps hydro locking is too strong a term for tight rotation caused by raw water flooding in cylinders.
If the OP hired a mechanic to diagnose this problem,...... the problem solving and do no harm sequence should go as follows
1. Manually check resistance to rotation.
2 check battery voltage and connections
3. Turn off raw water intake
4. Briefly try a key start
5. If no change, jump start direct to the starter motor with own equipment
6. If still no change, consider the starter motor as faulty.
7. Remove and bench test.
8. If a jumpstart resolves the issue THEN start on the possible wiring problem

By “do no harm” I mean the following.
Don’t bend the guys conrods by trying to spin up against a partial to complete cylinder flooding.
Don’t try to start a tight engine until you absolutely know why it’s tight
Don’t set the wiring on fire by slow overcranking
Don’t burn out his starter motor by overcranking.
Don’t hydrolock his engine by slow overcranking.
Any additional suggestions from the forum are most welcome.
Pete.

[Spring-Fever]

Update: Not sure if this'll work - but I wanted to do a quick post to all of you readers/responders with an update on the status of this repair.

I have "cut to fresh" (ie back a few inches to clean, shiny copper) and replaced the terminal connections on all 6 AWG battery wires, grounds to engine block, red wire to starter, etc. Both batteries are brand, spanking new. As is the shore-power trickle charger (which consistently provides a positive "fully charged" signal for both batteries when I leave it charging overnight).

I also replaced the GROUND distribution block/bus in the engine cavity (and cleaned/replaced all wires connected to it)

Things seem "improved" - but I do not believe I am yet "out of the woods".

The "1/2/Both battery switch" is concerning me. Sometimes if just gently put it in the "1" position from the "off" position, I get the visible energy drain...and the engine won't turn over. But when I then quickly spin the switch to the left and back (ie through the "All" and "2" positions, then back to "1")... it seems to work. And the starter then gets sufficient juice to start the engine. This switch may be faulty, and part of the problem.

Also, the damn "trailer connectors" that the original manufacturer used throughout the boat in the wiring harness are widely recognized as "things to upgrade" on the Catalina 30. I inspected the one in the engine compartment -- which connects the glow plugs, starter, alternator - and it looks pretty bad/corroded.

Next: I intend to replace/circumvent the aging trailer plug (and probably the 1/All/2 switch), then re-post results here.


Thanks to all contributing/posting/following....

- Tim

[Spring-Fever]

Great feedback/tips, thanks. See my note below. I think I'm narrowing down the troubleshooting (replaced wires, connectors, etc). Batteries and charger are new and working well (99% likely). Starter and Alternator also "new" (less than 12 months), so 90% likely not the problem). I'm honing in on all wires, corrosion, connectors, proper connections, etc. And the 1/Both/2 switch. I'm optimistic once those are all replaced, we could be in the winner's circle.

If not, one of the devices mentioned may be defective, even though they are new.
(I do not think that is realistic, though.)

[donradcliffe]

If you suspect the 1/2/B switch, did you take off all the wires which connect to it and wire brush them and the trrminals clean? You can test the switch by jumping between B1 and the output wires on the back of the switch with an automotive jumper cable to see if that improves your starting.

[Spring-Fever]

1/2/B switch? No, no wire brushed yet. But they looked bright and perfectly clean. My focus will be on the "1" connectors in the switch, as B and 2 seem to work fine, when turning the ignition key.

Only occasionally, "1" is sporadic. And I do my quick-spin hack/workaround to get it to work.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Spring-Fever

Update: Not sure if this'll work - but I wanted to do a quick post to all of you readers/responders with an update on the status of this repair.

I have "cut to fresh" (ie back a few inches to clean, shiny copper) and replaced the terminal connections on all 6 AWG battery wires, grounds to engine block, red wire to starter, etc. Both batteries are brand, spanking new. As is the shore-power trickle charger (which consistently provides a positive "fully charged" signal for both batteries when I leave it charging overnight).

I also replaced the GROUND distribution block/bus in the engine cavity (and cleaned/replaced all wires connected to it)

Things seem "improved" - but I do not believe I am yet "out of the woods".

The "1/2/Both battery switch" is concerning me. Sometimes if just gently put it in the "1" position from the "off" position, I get the visible energy drain...and the engine won't turn over. But when I then quickly spin the switch to the left and back (ie through the "All" and "2" positions, then back to "1")... it seems to work. And the starter then gets sufficient juice to start the engine. This switch may be faulty, and part of the problem.

Also, the damn "trailer connectors" that the original manufacturer used throughout the boat in the wiring harness are widely recognized as "things to upgrade" on the Catalina 30. I inspected the one in the engine compartment -- which connects the glow plugs, starter, alternator - and it looks pretty bad/corroded.

Next: I intend to replace/circumvent the aging trailer plug (and probably the 1/All/2 switch), then re-post results here.



Thanks to all contributing/posting/following....

- Tim

Yes, agreed those battery switches are generally seal and cannot be serviced, except the wires connected to them.
Be sure to check/ clean that side of those battery wires too.
Battery switches are subject to full starter loads, and can corrode internally if the loads are higher due to corroded battery cables or faulty starters.
Your doing the right things ,and it sounds like your rooting out the bad connections.
Delete those "trailer" wire connectors for sure. Wire strips are great for that.
They are a pain, and hide the corrosion.
SV Cloud Duster

[Spring-Fever]

BoatYardDog.....when you say "wire strips", are you referring to a "terminal block" type of device? Like a bus? ( I was just going to cut and re-join each wire outside the "trailer" connectors, individually).

Is it better to put in on one of the bus/strips, that have multiple screws along a small block?