Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-08-2022, 01:24   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2019
Boat: Bavaria C57
Posts: 141
Seizing wire as a fuse

Hi
After some advice please. My anchor windlass fuse has blown which is a 100 amp fuse. I do not have a spare fuse on board. I have removed the fuse and used some seizing wire across the terminals. Tested it and windlass operated. I do not know what the amp rating is for seizing wire and will this do as a temporary fix until I can get a replacement?
Thanks
Mike
Haddock1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 04:11   #2
Registered User
 
fourlyons's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Boat: 39' Custom built junk rigged cat ketch
Posts: 364
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haddock1 View Post
Hi

After some advice please. My anchor windlass fuse has blown which is a 100 amp fuse. I do not have a spare fuse on board. I have removed the fuse and used some seizing wire across the terminals. Tested it and windlass operated. I do not know what the amp rating is for seizing wire and will this do as a temporary fix until I can get a replacement?

Thanks

Mike
Sure, it will work, but of course it's quite risky, as I'm sure you know. If you have to do this, you should at least start with the smallest diameter wire that works. You want the improvised fuse to burn before the windlass wire even warms up. It sounds like you have used too much wire to bridge the fuse block.
fourlyons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 05:00   #3
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,760
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haddock1 View Post
Hi
After some advice please. My anchor windlass fuse has blown which is a 100 amp fuse. I do not have a spare fuse on board. I have removed the fuse and used some seizing wire across the terminals. Tested it and windlass operated. I do not know what the amp rating is for seizing wire and will this do as a temporary fix until I can get a replacement?
Thanks
Mike

Nope.


Fuse wire and ribbon is typically similar to solder (Pb and Sn) because it has high resistance and melts low (180C). Monel has less resistance and melts at 1350C. It will shine like a light bulb and not blow. You have no fuse.



The temporary fix is to haul the anchor by hand. Fuses don't just blow unless there is something wrong.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 06:22   #4
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 14,105
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haddock1 View Post
Hi
After some advice please. My anchor windlass fuse has blown which is a 100 amp fuse. I do not have a spare fuse on board. I have removed the fuse and used some seizing wire across the terminals. Tested it and windlass operated. I do not know what the amp rating is for seizing wire and will this do as a temporary fix until I can get a replacement?
Thanks
Mike
No you can’t do that. Also, you only know if it works when you try to haul up the anchor because without the load of that, the windlass will only consume a fraction of the power. When you haul the anchor, it may burn immediately and even cause a fire.

You should use a breaker like this one: https://www.bluesea.com/products/714...ace_Mount_100A
__________________
May the Force be with you!

s/v Jedi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 06:50   #5
Registered User
 
phorvati's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: Tayana FD-12
Posts: 1,090
Images: 6
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Yeah, you dont have a fuse, just an element that probably wastes power. You can operate windlass without a fuse if you know there are no faults. But given that you popped a fuse, you have a fault so its a fire risk. I would agree to operate by hand until a proper fuse is found. You could end up with a short across the battery, then a fire. Also, remember that a fuse or circuit breaker protects wire from catching on fire. Look at wire gauge and length and see if you can get away with larger amperage fuse, like 125a or 150a. I don't like breakers, I like fuses better. Breakers can fail short after many trips. Arcing across contacts eventually can weld them closed, no matter how good contact finish may be. Fuse never fails short.
phorvati is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 10:35   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Fiji Airways/ Lake Ontario
Boat: Legend 37.5, 1968 Alcort Sunfish, Avon 310
Posts: 2,677
Images: 11
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Fuses don't just blow unless there is something wrong.
This is one of those truisms that I absolutely hate, because there's not much room for stories, excuses, and other potential faults; no real bandaids or work-arounds.

.....as said, don't run it until the fuse is replaced, don't try to find a substitute "fuse".
__________________
There are too many gaviiformes here!
Tetepare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 10:49   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 403
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

I'll be watching the boating news for "Barvaria 57 burns to waterline when hauling anchor."

I'd put a smilie face here, but this is very much NOT funny...

Putting MORE THAN 100 A * 24 V = 2400 Watts through a piece of seizing wire????

Are you trying for a Darwin Award? or maybe just trolling to see how riled up you can get the electrical gurus?
ItDepends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 10:51   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,127
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
I don't like breakers, I like fuses better. Breakers can fail short after many trips.
The other reason not to like breakers is they invite the behavior of simply shrugging and resetting the breaker instead of isolating the problem and fixing it.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 11:12   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Ontario Canada
Boat: Jeanneau SO 389
Posts: 1,557
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

I think the motor is shot. Bleeding armature.
Hand crack my friend. Same thing a starter motor does near end of life.push solder out of the coils. Rebuild kit.
Rumrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 11:33   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 403
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Just as an extra thought from my Admiral about what a incredibly BAD idea this actually is...

Almost every boat insurance policy in the USA (at least) carries an implicit (that means not written down!) warrantee of seaworthiness. In other words the insured warrantees to the underwriters that the boat will be kept in seaworthy condition.

If you have a piece of seizing wire acting as a "fuse" your boat is, by any reasonable definition, NOT seaworthy. If such a thing was found by a claims adjuster investigating a claim for ANYTHING--even completely unrelated to the missing fuse--the claim would justifiably be denied because you failed to keep the boat in seaworthy condition.
ItDepends is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 12:45   #11
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,760
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
This is one of those truisms that I absolutely hate, because there's not much room for stories, excuses, and other potential faults; no real bandaids or work-arounds.

.....as said, don't run it until the fuse is replaced, don't try to find a substitute "fuse".

You are correct. I too could list many exceptions.



But for an individual that would jumper a fuse, it is the conservative, rule of thumb. "If you don't know for certain what caused the trip, don't use it without a proper fuse (overcurrent protection device).". It is a trueism that is only useful in the general case for beginners. All rules of thumb have exceptions and limitations.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 12:48   #12
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 8,760
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItDepends View Post
Just as an extra thought from my Admiral about what a incredibly BAD idea this actually is...

Almost every boat insurance policy in the USA (at least) carries an implicit (that means not written down!) warrantee of seaworthiness. In other words the insured warrantees to the underwriters that the boat will be kept in seaworthy condition.

If you have a piece of seizing wire acting as a "fuse" your boat is, by any reasonable definition, NOT seaworthy. If such a thing was found by a claims adjuster investigating a claim for ANYTHING--even completely unrelated to the missing fuse--the claim would justifiably be denied because you failed to keep the boat in seaworthy condition.

Good point. Jumpered fuses are on the short list of things insurance companies will call out as flagrant improper maintenance. It's wrong something you did knowingly.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 12:58   #13
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 14,105
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
Yeah, you dont have a fuse, just an element that probably wastes power. You can operate windlass without a fuse if you know there are no faults. But given that you popped a fuse, you have a fault so its a fire risk. I would agree to operate by hand until a proper fuse is found. You could end up with a short across the battery, then a fire. Also, remember that a fuse or circuit breaker protects wire from catching on fire. Look at wire gauge and length and see if you can get away with larger amperage fuse, like 125a or 150a. I don't like breakers, I like fuses better. Breakers can fail short after many trips. Arcing across contacts eventually can weld them closed, no matter how good contact finish may be. Fuse never fails short.
“After many trips” is something I can not imagine. For so far I know every windlass manufacturer recommends or even provides a breaker with their windlass. It is the norm.
__________________
May the Force be with you!

s/v Jedi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 13:00   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 5,613
Images: 7
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

SS seizing wire is metallurgically similar to the wire they use to make resisters and the wire wound heating bars in old style toasters and bar heaters. They use it because it has a very high melting point. Of all the wire types you could have used it was probably the worst choice. Copper from a multi strand electrical cable or rolled up aluminium foil would be better.

You do really need to know what caused the fuse to blow before using the winch again.
__________________
Satiriker ist verboten, la conformité est obligatoire
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2022, 13:02   #15
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 14,105
Re: Seizing wire as a fuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
SS seizing wire is metallurgically similar to the wire they use to make resisters and the wire wound heating bars in old style toasters and bar heaters. They use it because it has a very high melting point. Of all the wire types you could have used it was probably the worst choice. Copper from a multi strand electrical cable or rolled up aluminium foil would be better.

You do really need to know what caused the fuse to blow before using the winch again.
No, they use Nichrome wire for that. It is an alloy of Nickel and Chrome.
__________________
May the Force be with you!

s/v Jedi is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuse Panel and stuck fuse holder Tmacmi Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 13-04-2020 06:35
Shackle Pin Wire Seizing Method muttskie Anchoring & Mooring 28 28-05-2016 08:37
Seizing Nylon Cleats to Wire - Flag halyards, light load-bearing cleats, etc. blahman Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 5 09-02-2009 10:05
seizing wire for shackles sluissa Anchoring & Mooring 18 23-08-2008 05:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.