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Old 26-06-2023, 16:03   #1
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Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

Hi there, y'all -
I'm a brand new member on the forum, but I am already asking for some input however, in order to try to find an "easy solution" to an electrical problem..

I recently bought a small, but sturdy, sailing yacht; an Amigo 33 (LOA 30 feet) from the late eighties, built here in Sweden.

Unfortunately, the seller had done some strange things to the electrical system. One of those was to cut off the heavy-gage cable between one of the two batteries, and the battery selector. It was unclear to the seller, which of the two batteries that was supposed to act as a starter-battery, vs general consumption battery. He wasn't sure whether or not he might have cut the circuit to the alternator, while test-running the engine, or not.
Initially, the alternator didn't seem to give any current, as the voltage in both of the batteries didn't increase at all. (The batteries had both been fully charged before running the engine and were at 12.7V, or slightly above that. They are both maintenance free lead-acud batteries and not AGM.) After running the engine for 3-4 hours, in order to move the boat to a different dock, I re-checked the voltage, which was now 15.6-15.7 V.
With mixed feelings, I concluded that the alternator must be working, whereas that regulator most likely doesn't. Without having any further info, as of yet, (such as brand/model of alternator/regulator), would this conclusion still make sense?

Now, here is my actual question:
Assuming that the regulator has probably failed, and also realizing that the two separate switches, for each of the batteries onboard, seem to be quite ancient, (as well as adding the inherent risk of ruining the alternator, if both circuits would be turned off simultaneously), so my initial idea is to just ignore the (presumably) faulty regulator and instead let the output from the alternator flow straight to some form of external regulator or some other device, that might also improve the current system, by separating the two batteries in some smarter way?

So far, I have looked at two different devices from Victron. (even though they are not very cheap, they might probably still cost me more or less the same, either one of them, as it would to have the regulator replaced, and it could also improve my system, hopefully.
The gadgets that I have looked at, so far, are these:two:

Victron Energy Cyrix-ct 12/24 Volt 120 Amp Intelligent Battery Combiner (Manufacturer part number ‎CYR010120011)

https://leisurepower.co.uk/power-ele...r-cyr010120011


Victron Energy Argo 80-2SC ARG0802000R Battery Trends (Model Name ‎ARG080202000R)


https://www.bmstechnologies.co.uk/pr...arg080202000r/


Any input, regarding to if any of these two devices might be able to prevent the batteries from over-charging, or not, given the circumstances, would be greatly appreciated!
Also- if you would have any suggestion of some kind of external voltage-regulator, (possibly adding other benefits, such as "smarter charging", without costing an arm and a leg), then that would also be most helpful!

(By the way, I apologize for possibly having double-posted this thread! It seems I was a bit trigger-happy, before having completed my actual question.. I will try to remove the other post.)

Cheers- Daniel
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Old 26-06-2023, 18:36   #2
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

Hi Daniel
have a VP 2003 in my boat-same alternator setup as VP2002.
The original alternator with built in regulator is a Paris Rhone/Valeo 55amp.
The regulator is mounted externally on rear of alternator & is easy to change-once you dismount the alt.
I replaced my complete alt/reg with a $100 rebuilt one.I even bought a second one for spare-assuming rebuilt would not last. 5 yrs later,first rebuilt still working.
Not necessarily suggesting you go rebuilt but new original equipment ones are $$$$.
You state your batteries voltage at battery is 15.7. Normal is 14.7 with alt. charging.
So-this suggests to me that alt. is outputting current OK.
Test volts at alt out(big) terminal.If it is 14.7ish,alt & reg are OK


If it is 14.7ish,regulator is working proper,but 15.7 volts at bat.suggests the regulator sense(field) wire is being supplied thru a diode somewhere & losing 0.7-1V,making the alt. overcharge


Diode splitters were commonly placed in dual bat systems in past to prevent the start bat from draining into house bat when engine is stopped. The alt sense field wire is fed from start bat,via the dash panel start key.Alternator only senses the start bat volts-never the house bat.
If the alternator charge wire is fed direct to house bat.,the charge current for the start bat voltage will drop 0.7-1V below 14.7 & never charge fully.
Other combination problems can arise depending on other weird wiring attempts.
Check all of your charge wire ckt-even the negatives. Draw a diagram & post it.


Attd some info that may help. Cheers/Len


https://www.marinedieselbasics.com/w...hop-Manual.pdf


https://www.ravenyachts.com/PDF/volv...2002_owner.pdf


https://alternatorbrush.com/products...o-penta-marine


https://www.ebay.com/itm/165958907834


NOTE: If you replace alternator,you may have to re-use existing pulley.Use a wheelnut impact gun for this.
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Old 26-06-2023, 20:13   #3
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

This is experimental-first attempt to use Google Drive to share a PDF of a wiring diagram for my boat.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-56...ew?usp=sharing


https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qO...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 27-06-2023, 16:45   #4
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

Thanks a lot for all the detailed and relevant information, Len! I will certainly look through those links, to gain some knowledge.
That is interesting, I will try to measure at the alternator and see what output it gives. I didn't think about the possibility that there might be some diodes in the system, that might cause the regulator to increase the voltage.

(My electrical system is a real "bird's nest" of cables, since the previous owner put in a massive amount of gadgets, such as a huge inverter, windlass control station, etc, but almost all of that has now failed and is partly removed, but there are plenty of loose wires. So, I am thinking that I should just take everything away and start with a clean installation and then your wiring diagrams will be very helpful and I'll start drawing some for my system too.)

I did look at some replacement alternators and found a company here in Sweden, that seem to have plenty of old stock alternators for Volvo Penta and also some interesting upgrades. Amongst others an 115 Amp alternator (new, but not original VP-parts) for less than 300€ which might be reasonable value. I think they also have hardware for setting up dual alternators, which could be interesting to try.
((These days I am not doing any blue-water cruising, but I keep the boat moored in a very beautiful spot in the west coast archipelago, near Gothenburg and there is no electricity there and there isn't even a small path to this dock, so it is pretty isolated. However- över a quarter of a century ago, I sailed to the Caribbean from Gothenburg and spent about 5 years over there, just having an Aerogen windgenerator and a single 30W solar panel and even managed to keep an SSB-radio up and running and transmitting every now and then as well as sometimes using a small fridge and, of course, running lights as well, so in this era of extremely cheap solar panels, I really shouldn't need any external electricity, even if Sweden isn't one of the sunniest places..))

Well- right now, I am mainly concerned about not frying my batteries, whenever I need to run the engine, so that was why I was thinking that there must exist some suitable gadget that could protect the batteries, as well as also isolating them from each other and possibly providing some smarter type of charging?

((However- I am surprised to get the notion that things haven't really developed so much in that area, the last 2-3 decades, but maybe I am completely wrong? When we left Sweden during the autumn of 1995, our ancient little boat already had some fairly modern gear for regulating charging externally, while sensing the temperatures at both if our battery banks. I don't remember the actual model or brand of gear, but I do remember that it was seen as quite advanced back then. On the other hand, we had a Lucas alternator that was badly installed in a very moist spot, so we never had much use for external smart charging, since our alternator was broken, more often than not. A real bummer, while winter-sailing in the English Channel, to not be able to run our kerosene-heater. But I am getting quite far off-topic now..))

Well, I am very grateful for your help and I am glad to hear that you are keeping your VP 2003 up and running , over there!
I'll try to access the electrical drawings that you linked to, so that I will get some ideas about how to rebuild my system.
Cheers- Daniel
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Old 27-06-2023, 17:16   #5
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

Thanks for letting me access those two diagrams! One was even bilingual in Swedish and English - very nice!
It is also interesting to see how you have wired Puffin II. That will be very helpful for me!
Also, it will be even more helpful with the VP Workshop Manual that you linked to earlier!
I feel much better already, about getting started with doing some maintenanceon my VP2002, so I am sincerely grateful!
Cheers now!
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Old 27-06-2023, 17:33   #6
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dykserv View Post
Thanks a lot for all the detailed and relevant information, Len! I will certainly look through those links, to gain some knowledge.
That is interesting, I will try to measure at the alternator and see what output it gives. I didn't think about the possibility that there might be some diodes in the system, that might cause the regulator to increase the voltage.

(My electrical system is a real "bird's nest" of cables, since the previous owner put in a massive amount of gadgets, such as a huge inverter, windlass control station, etc, but almost all of that has now failed and is partly removed, but there are plenty of loose wires. So, I am thinking that I should just take everything away and start with a clean installation and then your wiring diagrams will be very helpful and I'll start drawing some for my system too.)

I did look at some replacement alternators and found a company here in Sweden, that seem to have plenty of old stock alternators for Volvo Penta and also some interesting upgrades. Amongst others an 115 Amp alternator (new, but not original VP-parts) for less than 300€ which might be reasonable value. I think they also have hardware for setting up dual alternators, which could be interesting to try.
((These days I am not doing any blue-water cruising, but I keep the boat moored in a very beautiful spot in the west coast archipelago, near Gothenburg and there is no electricity there and there isn't even a small path to this dock, so it is pretty isolated. However- över a quarter of a century ago, I sailed to the Caribbean from Gothenburg and spent about 5 years over there, just having an Aerogen windgenerator and a single 30W solar panel and even managed to keep an SSB-radio up and running and transmitting every now and then as well as sometimes using a small fridge and, of course, running lights as well, so in this era of extremely cheap solar panels, I really shouldn't need any external electricity, even if Sweden isn't one of the sunniest places..))

Well- right now, I am mainly concerned about not frying my batteries, whenever I need to run the engine, so that was why I was thinking that there must exist some suitable gadget that could protect the batteries, as well as also isolating them from each other and possibly providing some smarter type of charging?

((However- I am surprised to get the notion that things haven't really developed so much in that area, the last 2-3 decades, but maybe I am completely wrong? When we left Sweden during the autumn of 1995, our ancient little boat already had some fairly modern gear for regulating charging externally, while sensing the temperatures at both if our battery banks. I don't remember the actual model or brand of gear, but I do remember that it was seen as quite advanced back then. On the other hand, we had a Lucas alternator that was badly installed in a very moist spot, so we never had much use for external smart charging, since our alternator was broken, more often than not. A real bummer, while winter-sailing in the English Channel, to not be able to run our kerosene-heater. But I am getting quite far off-topic now..))

Well, I am very grateful for your help and I am glad to hear that you are keeping your VP 2003 up and running , over there!
I'll try to access the electrical drawings that you linked to, so that I will get some ideas about how to rebuild my system.
Cheers- Daniel

There are devices available to modernize your system,but they are not cheap. I think you would be wise to clean up your existing wiring & get a simple system working first. And a good diagram drawn.
Keep things simple at first

Then you can read online about various improvements that may apply to you.
I am located on a remote island (Grand Manan) & have to do many repairs myself,so I have learned that simpler is less troublesome.
Glad I could help/Len
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Old 27-06-2023, 18:09   #7
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Re: Seeking help with easy-fix for malfunctioning regulator on VP2002

You may want to add a battery combiner relay later.





These combining relays are called ACR or VSR (same thing)


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