Rutland 914i Windgen: New Kid on the Block

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Candoo

That would only apply if there was a regulator fitted, the last test I carried out was with a separate battery that was standing for a month wired direct to the geny with amp & volt meter in the circuit for two days with the amount of wind that I was getting this should have fried the battery it got up to 15v & 2 amps in 20kt plus gusts and the battery temperature did not rise above ambient, when the wind was down to about 12kt the volts fell back to 14.2 & .5 amp, I think a 5 year old with a rubber band & stick could do better.

That's not a very good test! The battery will control how much current it can take, with or without a regulator. The regulator's only job is to control the voltage in the last stages of charging when the battery has already started limiting the current. Remember that a battery is a chemical reaction, changing from one form to another and back. When you are in the charged state, there's no more lead sulphate to turn back into lead. The reaction stops and current can no longer flow.

The only way you can do the test is to discharge the battery to 50-70% charge before you even start.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Candoo

That would only apply if there was a regulator fitted, the last test I carried out was with a separate battery that was standing for a month wired direct to the geny with amp & volt meter in the circuit for two days with the amount of wind that I was getting this should have fried the battery it got up to 15v & 2 amps in 20kt plus gusts and the battery temperature did not rise above ambient, when the wind was down to about 12kt the volts fell back to 14.2 & .5 amp, I think a 5 year old with a rubber band & stick could do better.

No it applies to a battery without a regulator.

You won't fry a battery in 2 days with one of these little generators in the mild conditions that you mention. 15V in the gusts is not going to do any harm at all in that time, it might just cause a little desulphation and actually help the battery a bit and/or a little gassing . It's the acceptance rate of the battery that is doing the regulation.

Try your test again but make sure your battery is discharged at least 50% (around 12V at rest).

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In 12 knots of wind, with the blades appearing to spin quite well, it is putting out only about 1/2 an amp of power at 24v, or only about 12 watts. I got all of 2 amp/hours during a 12 hour period at anchor .

Yikes...that would be like 2 minutes of my Honda 2000 generator with a 60Amp battery charger.....

The Rutland is a damn quite unit...but if I can get the same amount of power from a 2 minute Honda Generator run...well....is it really worth it?

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The Rutland is a damn quite unit...but if I can get the same amount of power from a 2 minute Honda Generator run...well....is it really worth it?

That's the heart of the argument really. You can buy a generator and quite a lot of fuel for the price of a wind generator.

It comes down to personal preference, how much, and how you can carry, the generator fuel etc..

With a balanced energy budget a solar/wind system looks after itself. Solar more than wind as you don't have to worry a solar panel spinning itself inside out when the breeze picks up. When my 914i does die I'll replace it with another solar panel I think.

[DeepFrz]

All the Vendee Globe boats have gone away from wind generators. They use solar and water generators.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

All the Vendee Globe boats have gone away from wind generators. They use solar and water generators.

From their website "Autonomy is reached at 5 knots"; below 5 knots it consumes power, doesn't generate at anchor, etc..

Apart from that the ones that I have seen on fast cruisers all looked quite fragile and I hear that breakages are common.

Promising but not a contender, yet; at least not for me.

Chris

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Yikes...that would be like 2 minutes of my Honda 2000 generator with a 60Amp battery charger.....

The Rutland is a damn quite unit...but if I can get the same amount of power from a 2 minute Honda Generator run...well....is it really worth it?

If your batteries can take advantage of you 60 amp charger!

The advantage of wind/solar over generator/alternator is not the first 20-30% of fast recharging, it's the economy of the last slow 10-20% without needing to burn diesel for hours.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by StuM

If your batteries can take advantage of you 60 amp charger!

The advantage of wind/solar over generator/alternator is not the first 20-30% of fast recharging, it's the economy of the last slow 10-20% without needing to burn diesel for hours.

That's where my 1380W of solar comes into play...seeing 75Amps from solar panels makes a 2Amp wind generator seem like....well....

Anytime you see a wind generator publishing data in M/S or KwHrs/yr or Amps/Infinity squared & beyond it's because they don't want to give you the data in a way that a cruiser can use and understand, which is "Wind Speed in kts vs Amps produced". It's part of the BS racket in my opinion to try and keep things sounding scientific, fancy and cool while at the same time not giving you anything usefull to a real life cruiser out at anchor.

Don't get me wrong, I love wind generators, I have a wind generator, and heck I'm the owner of the KISS wind gen (for full disclosure), so it's not like I don't want to promote wind generators! I'm not picking on Rutland in any way, it's a good time tested and cruiser proved design. It's just common in the wind generator industry to try and give as much meanless data as possible. Lots of pretty graphs and charts but at the end of the day don't help a cruiser compare units or understand what they are really buying. Sure I sell a wind generator, but I tell people to first put as much solar on the boat as possible and then if there is budget left go for a wind generator. I think that's the more honest approach than selling a 2A in 20kt wind generator as something that is going to power a moden cruising boat. That approach will only lead to unhappy phone calls that I don't want or need.

To me it's like water maker companies rating their units in Gallons Per Day, when NO Cruiser runs their water makers 24hrs/day, what matters is Gallons per Hour. They do it to be deceptive and make the numbers seem better than they really are to the new cruisers outfitting their boat without some real world experience under their capatins hat.

[Candoo]

914i: This was one of the tests that I had to carry out back in the sixties to obtain my National Craftsman Certificate in motor vehicle repair, back then it was all dynamos.
Some does and don'ts carrying out this test,
Do use a good battery but not fully charged 11 to 12v,
If the generator is putting out a charge to specification shut down the WG and disconnect,
If you suspect that the WG is breaking down under load then wire up some power hungry devises to the battery first
before the test, if in good working order shut down and disconnect.
If as in my case there is a feeble output leave it run and keep your eye on it with the different wind speeds, under no circumstances leave it unattended, don't let the battery go over 18 volts, if you feel the battery temperature slightly worm shut it down as it will start to produce hydrogen gas and there must be charge going in to the battery.
Don't use a dud battery thinking because it is showing 9 or 10 volts it is better for the test, if the WG is putting in charge the duff cell will boil and produce hydrogen gas.

This test was devised to remove all of the other components that could effect the test results, put it still leaves the wiring connector on the silly little short tail coming out of the WG this should have been a metre long so that the WG could be dropped on to mounting tube and the wires connected after (going to remind them of that).

I will get back to every one when they have sorted it, that will probably be about 4 weeks.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Anytime you see a wind generator publishing data in M/S or KwHrs/yr or Amps/Infinity squared & beyond it's because they don't want to give you the data in a way that a cruiser can use and understand,

I agree with many of your comments but remember that
a, many of these units are designed in continental Europe where they think in, and use, m/s (metres per second) for all of their sailing,
b; m/s is the standard SI unit for velocity and is almost always used for taking scientific measurements.

1m/s = 2knots , near enough that it won't make any difference at the speeds we are talking about.

[Lionelsole]

Hmmm.

Having been parked next a boat with one of these and been impressed with how quiet it was, I was contemplating fitting one and had a couple of questions:

1. I understand that a potential problem is that, if left unattended in strong winds, WGs can destroy themselves. How is that problem overcome?

2. As this unit is a few years old now, is there a newer one that would be more recommended?

Having read through the thread, a new question occurs:

3. Has anyone done proper tests, as recommended on here and found that they can sustain cruising consumption of, say, 40 - 50 Ah per day? If not, my plan would be to save my money on this and buy a good quality petrol generator and run that for an hour per day.

Thanks,

Lionel

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Lionelsole

Hmmm.

Having been parked next a boat with one of these and been impressed with how quiet it was, I was contemplating fitting one and had a couple of questions:

1. I understand that a potential problem is that, if left unattended in strong winds, WGs can destroy themselves. How is that problem overcome?

2. As this unit is a few years old now, is there a newer one that would be more recommended?

Having read through the thread, a new question occurs:

3. Has anyone done proper tests, as recommended on here and found that they can sustain cruising consumption of, say, 40 - 50 Ah per day? If not, my plan would be to save my money on this and buy a good quality petrol generator and run that for an hour per day.

Thanks,

Lionel

1. The only way is to tie a line around the the support pole and one of the blades - I use the line I leave dangling from the hole in the tail for catching it when it gets a bit hairy.

In my experience it is the supplied MPPT controller (which is what is supposed to give it its performance advantage) that fries - I have replaced mine with a robust load-dump controller.

2. not really - not in the small units class

3. Depends on where you are moored and what the wind speed is. This unit needs to spinning quite fast to give you a steady 2+ Amps which is what you need so I would say a qualified no it wont keep up. However, again depending on your latitude a 100W solar panel would probably do the job.

Chris

[Lionelsole]

Thanks Chris,

seems like the ideal solution would be in 3 parts.

1. Solar panel for keeping battery topped when boat unattended (got that already).
2. WG for 'free' power when moored, or sailing with moderate / high relative wind.
3. Petrol generator for extended light wind cruising, to save running main engine.

I suppose the argument in favour of this is that when one (or two) systems break down, there are back-ups.

Against - more systems: more complication and more chance of one failing. Not to mention expense. Or running out of space to fit them all.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Lionelsole

Thanks Chris,

seems like the ideal solution would be in 3 parts.

1. Solar panel for keeping battery topped when boat unattended (got that already).
2. WG for 'free' power when moored, or sailing with moderate / high relative wind.
3. Petrol generator for extended light wind cruising, to save running main engine.

I suppose the argument in favour of this is that when one (or two) systems break down, there are back-ups.

Against - more systems: more complication and more chance of one failing. Not to mention expense. Or running out of space to fit them all.

These days you can easily generate the same amount of power as these small generators produce with solar. If you have the space put a couple hundred Watts of solar and with your daily AH consumption you would easily keep up. Have a couple of panels and a spare controller and you have all the redundancy you need, no moving parts, no noise.

I'd forget the petrol generator as I don't carry an outboard motor so have no need, or desire, to have petrol aboard. But that is just my preference. I sometimes wish I had a small generator to power my welder but that is whole other topic