Replacing Battery Charger - Considering Victron

[MerMike]

Originally Posted by smac999

Most of the victron line of chargers are 230volt euro power.

Almost* every Victron model is available in 120/240 60 Hz US power formats. Choice of input power is not a limitation.

*I'm sure there's an exception, but it's not worth the time to find it.

[CarlF]

I've been using Victron exclusively for 15 years on three 120v boats. A huge advantage is the five year warranty - far longer than most.

If you want 20-30 amp which would be about right for your lead-acid batteries, this Victron 25 amp one would be a very nice option. They also have 5 stage charging and temperature compensation - a big plus and not all battery chargers have it. It even has bluetooth to connect to your phone.

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Blue-S...15_p_7977.html

Get rid of those 1-2-both battery switches. Have a house bank of two batteries in parallel and a start battery. Have an "on/off" switch for each bank. Connect the alternator and charger to the house bank. To keep the start bank charged install a battery combiner. This will charge both banks whenever there is charging voltage (e.g. over 13.3V) - either from shore or from the engine alternator. Victron has a nice one:

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...er_p_6769.html

(the Victron instructions also show how you can install a button to parallel the batteries to get the engine started should the start battery ever be dead)

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I've been using Victron exclusively for 15 years on three 120v boats. A huge advantage is the five year warranty - far longer than most.

If you want 20-30 amp which would be about right for your lead-acid batteries, this Victron 25 amp one would be a very nice option. They also have 5 stage charging and temperature compensation - a big plus and not all battery chargers have it. It even has bluetooth to connect to your phone.

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Blue-S...15_p_7977.html

Get rid of those 1-2-both battery switches. Have a house bank of two batteries in parallel and a start battery. Have an "on/off" switch for each bank. Connect the alternator and charger to the house bank. To keep the start bank charged install a battery combiner. This will charge both banks whenever there is charging voltage (e.g. over 13.3V) - either from shore or from the engine alternator. Victron has a nice one:

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...er_p_6769.html

(the Victron instructions also show how you can install a button to parallel the batteries to get the engine started should the start battery ever be dead)

I agree with all of the above.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by markguthrie

Thanks. I really like the bluetooth, and so far victron is the only one I have found with that.

Do you sell this one? https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-BPC123...YaAinVEALw_wcB

We sell all Victron's North American products. If it is not in stock it can be ordered.

[markguthrie]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I've been using Victron exclusively for 15 years on three 120v boats. A huge advantage is the five year warranty - far longer than most.

If you want 20-30 amp which would be about right for your lead-acid batteries, this Victron 25 amp one would be a very nice option. They also have 5 stage charging and temperature compensation - a big plus and not all battery chargers have it. It even has bluetooth to connect to your phone.

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Blue-S...15_p_7977.html

Get rid of those 1-2-both battery switches. Have a house bank of two batteries in parallel and a start battery. Have an "on/off" switch for each bank. Connect the alternator and charger to the house bank. To keep the start bank charged install a battery combiner. This will charge both banks whenever there is charging voltage (e.g. over 13.3V) - either from shore or from the engine alternator. Victron has a nice one:

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...er_p_6769.html

(the Victron instructions also show how you can install a button to parallel the batteries to get the engine started should the start battery ever be dead)

Thanks Carlf. This is interesting. I have never heard of a battery combiner. And I like the simplicity of the plan.

So a few questions is you don't mind and also confirming my understanding:
1) So you don't see an advantage having the separate outputs and being able to monitor each battery? That seems valuable, but I have never had it before. I do have a digital readout for the house batteries at the helm.
2) On getting rid of the A/B/Both. So your idea is just a separte on/off switch on each battery. So when shutting down the engines, turn off the starting batt, and one of the house batts, right? Then you always know you have a house battery in reserve, time to fire up the genny maybe.

The A/B/Off can't be used with the battery balancer?

3) Speaking of the genny, I have not idea how that is wired in now, but with your plan, it would go to the battery combiner, just like the two alternators, right?
4) The battery combiner makes sure that all batteries are always topped off, regardless of the source.
5) Do you have any suggestions for on/off switches for the batteries.
Like this own? https://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-9003e...ch_p_1694.html

Really appreciate the input!

-Mark

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by markguthrie

So a few questions is you don't mind and also confirming my understanding:
1) So you don't see an advantage having the separate outputs and being able to monitor each battery? That seems valuable, but I have never had it before. I do have a digital readout for the house batteries at the helm.
2) On getting rid of the A/B/Both. So your idea is just a separte on/off switch on each battery. So when shutting down the engines, turn off the starting batt, and one of the house batts, right? Then you always know you have a house battery in reserve, time to fire up the genny maybe.

The A/B/Off can't be used with the battery balancer?

3) Speaking of the genny, I have not idea how that is wired in now, but with your plan, it would go to the battery combiner, just like the two alternators, right?
4) The battery combiner makes sure that all batteries are always topped off, regardless of the source.
5) Do you have any suggestions for on/off switches for the batteries.
Like this own? https://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-9003e...ch_p_1694.html

Really appreciate the input!

-Mark

1. Separate outputs on a charger are not quite that separate. All multi-output chargers are essentially a single charger with 2 or 3 diode protected outputs. They are all capable of the same output and the voltage on each is the same. If you were to monitor each battery's voltage it would be identical when charged and on float - whatever the charger is set for, typically 13.5 volts.

2. The 2 separate switches make things simpler. One for the start battery. The other for the house batteries. The house batteries should be wired in parallel into one bank.

3. A modern battery combiner - like this one https://www.bluesea.com/products/761...12_24V_DC_120A is wired between battery banks. When a charge voltage is sensed on either battery bank it combines the batteries. When the voltage drops it automatically opens to separate the battery banks.

4. Yes the combiner makes sure all batteries are taken care of whatever the charge source.

All charge sources go directly to the battery banks. If it is a single engine boat with a single alternator it should be wired to the house bank. This is the bank that gets the most use so is always the most in need of current.
In a twin engine boat with an alternator on each I wire one to the start battery and one to the house bank. The ACR (combiner) is wired between the banks. This way after the engines are started and the start battery quickly charged both alternators will combine to charge the house bank.

Any other charge sources - AC powered battery charger, solar, etc. should be wired directly to the house bank. The ACR takes care of the start battery automatically.

A 1/2/both/off switch can be used. I have never liked them for several reasons. For one they confuse some people - the separate start and house switches are easily understood by everyone. Another reason is that with the 1/2/both switch when it is in either 1 or 2 the power is at both the electrical panel nd the engine starter. If you are anchored for a few days or weeks it makes no sense to me to do this. With separate switches the start battery is turned off and only the house load panel is powered.

The switch you linked to is fine, especially if you have a large hole to fill. My preference is Blue Seas 6006 https://www.bluesea.com/products/600...th__Knob_-_Red which is more compact.

[Stu Jackson]

mitiempo is right about the batteries, and regardless of the number of engines or type of boat, there are switchibng options available. Like these:



OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4....html#msg30101

1-2-B Considerations (New 2020 - Rodd finally got around to diagramming what I had done in the above link in 2009 )
https://marinehowto.com/1-2-both-bat...onsiderations/

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowner...d.php?t=137615

This is a newer primer for boat system wiring design with a thorough digram: Building a Good Foundation (October 2016)
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/ind.../#post-1332240

The Short Version of the 1-2-B Switch Stuff: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5....html#msg38552 This is a link to the Electrical Systems 101 Topic, reply #2

What are ACRs, Combiners & Echo Chargers? (by Maine Sail) [scroll to the top]
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowner...d.php?p=742417 and http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9....html#msg70131

Making Sense of Automatic Charging Relays (2019)
https://marinehowto.com/automatic-charging-relays/

[Mickeyrouse]

Over the years I have had numerous battery chargers fail, all because of overheating. That’s easy here in Texas. They have mostly been Truecharge types. I always use the temperature sensor on the battery terminal. I assume it works to some degree, and can only guess what the failure rate would be without it. I make no claims for or against these chargers- I know there’s ample opinion either way.
What I have done on the latest installation is install a small 110 v cooling fan on the mounting panel backside that the charger mounts to. It is wired parallel with the charger, so is only running- and needed- when the charger is on. I drilled a number of cooling holes in the panel so heat can be pulled off the back of the charger. The charger as mounted conceals the cooling holes in the mounting panel.
It seems most chargers 20 amps or more have dinky cooling fans, but I can’t see how they can move enough heat to protect the charger- surely not in my experience.
The flush-mount cooling fan I installed is described as an “instrument cooling fan”. Found it new on eBay for about $10. They are available in either 110 VAC or 12 VDC. As I said, for my application you’ll need 110 VAC. I also have one installed behind the electronics panel (Plotter/radar, GPS, VHF, etc) which generates a surprising amount of heat, but that one of course is 12 VDC.