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Old 28-03-2020, 10:51   #1
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Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Good day,

I did a search but couldn't find anything in the old forums. If someone has already answered this can you reply with the link?

I am in process of tearing out the original AC wiring in our 1989 Beneteau first 325. I am planning on tackling the shore power connector to the panel and wiring in a couple receptacles for now. We are on a tight budget. The DC system is a horror show, that's next.

Background on myself: Electronic Technologist. My father and uncle are master electricians and I worked with both of them when I was younger before I went to college. I have a pretty good cross section of knowledge for marine electrical but most importantly I know I don't know everything. Hence my questions here.

This will be a 30A 110 V system.

I have torn out the shore power connector from the transom. I have removed the 10/2 original cable from the connector to the panel located in the base of the nav table seat. I have a new blue sea panel to install. The panel has a reverse polarity function as per our insurance provider requirement.

My first problem is that the original panel was 14.5 feet (measured along the conductor) from the shore power connector. I need this to be 10' and I want to leave a loop at the panel and connector in case it needs to be serviced in the future. I don't want to add an additional breaker.

Can I move the shore power connector forward? Right now it is on the transom starboard side. Our boat has the swimming platform on the back.

I would need to move it halfway up the cockpit and drill through the hull into the starboard cockpit locker (above the water line, obviously)

I will be running 10/2 105C marine grade wire to the panel.

Thanks
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Old 28-03-2020, 12:52   #2
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

you can put it anywhere you want. consider where the dock will be. consider if you have to walk by the cord or not. they stick out and will get kicked.

you need 10/3 wire

most boats out there do not meet the 10' rule.

get yourself a galvanic isolator, or isolation transformer if you plan to have it plugged into a dock.
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Old 28-03-2020, 13:02   #3
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Brandon.


Yes. Isolate the rear of the inlet (box).
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Old 28-03-2020, 14:10   #4
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

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Originally Posted by BrandonB View Post
Good day,

I will be running 10/2 105C marine grade wire to the panel.

Thanks
I will assume you have the BluSea AC Main breaker #8077 (this is a dual breaker). As SMac999 indicated, you will need 10/3 marine grade triplex wire (not 10/2). The black and white wires will be connected to your BlueSea breaker(s). The green (ground) goes to a galvanic isolator (optional), and also ties into your DC ground (engine block). See simple diagram below.

I would not recommend installing the AC plug in the hull of your boat. If you want to move it from the stern, I would suggest putting it on the outside of the cockpit coaming towards the back.

I know you are not looking to spend more money, but I would also highly recommend installing a SmartPlug.

I am not quite sure what you mean by you "dont' want to add an additional breaker," but, you should have breakers to isolate your outlets. For example, if you have an outlet in the galley and another outlet at your nav station I would recommend each have an independent circuit breaker.

Also, again...realizing that you are tight on budget, you might also consider installing at least one AC outlet with USB ports. They cost more, but may save you some money in the long run if you use cell phones, tablets, etc on board.
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Old 29-03-2020, 08:39   #5
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

I also highly recommend using the SmartPlug connector for boat inlet. To be compatible with dock power you will of course have to keep the standard twist lock on that end.

You can buy a SmartPlug connector to install on your existing shore power cord and save a good bit.

Just curious about one point. Why does it have to be a maximum of 10' from the boat connector to the electrical panel? Why not keep the existing location and replace the old plug with a SmartPlug. Eliminates putting another hole in the boat. If it's a matter of voltage drop just use slightly heavier wire.
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Old 29-03-2020, 08:49   #6
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

See the old (2004) "Marinco Boaters Guide to AC Electrical Systems"
https://productimageserver.com/liter...de/42693QG.pdf
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Old 29-03-2020, 09:05   #7
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discovery 15797 View Post
I will assume you have the BluSea AC Main breaker #8077 (this is a dual breaker). As SMac999 indicated, you will need 10/3 marine grade triplex wire (not 10/2). The black and white wires will be connected to your BlueSea breaker(s). The green (ground) goes to a galvanic isolator (optional), and also ties into your DC ground (engine block). See simple diagram below.

I would not recommend installing the AC plug in the hull of your boat. If you want to move it from the stern, I would suggest putting it on the outside of the cockpit coaming towards the back.

I know you are not looking to spend more money, but I would also highly recommend installing a SmartPlug.

I am not quite sure what you mean by you "dont' want to add an additional breaker," but, you should have breakers to isolate your outlets. For example, if you have an outlet in the galley and another outlet at your nav station I would recommend each have an independent circuit breaker.

Also, again...realizing that you are tight on budget, you might also consider installing at least one AC outlet with USB ports. They cost more, but may save you some money in the long run if you use cell phones, tablets, etc on board.
The location of shore wire is the choice of dry and convenient. The stern was easy for the manufacture running the wire to the panel. The ten feet is a guideline in concern to safety and a master breaker. Not sure how many insurance companies really get checking unless the surveyor notes discrepancies/dangerous spots.

Warning on the fixtures-stay KISS. Many of the so-called chargers and switches are not marinized and fairly quickly corrode.

Blue Seas has some decent research sections on how to wire.

The Galvanic Isolator is a heavy addition. It may eventually be required but if on a budget instead design wiring so the boat is a subpanel of the dock. All grounds and neutrals stay separate (aka- the dock pedestal combines them. So must wire 10/3 cord)
someone will come and scream how unsafe this is-I do not disagree galvanic isolators may provide a bit more protection but isolators are not a necessity particularly if the boat is not grounded via the propellor and dock simultaneously.
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Old 29-03-2020, 09:31   #8
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

when i was cruising my 45' ccp sailboat, i found that 90% of the time i was bow into a slip and running a 50' long dock cord to the stock aft mounted shore power connector. i added a second shore power connector near the bow and a switch to select between the two connectors, killing the one not in use. rarely had to change the switch from the bow connector selection and was able to reduce the shore power cord to 25' [rarely needed more than 15'].
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Old 29-03-2020, 10:24   #9
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Wow. Lots of messages to reply to so I will make this one post to try and answer all of them.

ABYC states panel not to be more than 10' from shore power connector unless using an additional breaker to protect the longer run of cable. The last survey that the insurance company is using says the connector is 10' from the exisiting panel. It is not if you measure the cable. It is if you measure from the connector to the panel as the crow flies. Someone said most boats are not compliant to this rule. I can't see now an additional 3 to 4 feet will matter that much just trying to do this right.

Bluesea panel is an 8027. And yes I know how to wire it. hot and neutral are both switched through 30A breaker. The panel came with 3 15A breakers and has space for 3 more. 1 breaker will be for the battery charger, one of the hot water heater (don't even know if it works) and the 3rd for the AC recepts.

I plan on hooking up 2 receptacles for now. One at the NAV table which will be GFCI then from that recept to the forward cabin where I will install a recept with USB outlets. Both of these will be protected by one 15A breaker.

The recept in the galley and aft cabin will be disconnected and will wait for another day.

10/2 is what I would call what you guys call 10/3 because we don't usually count the ground wire. For example NMD90 Romex 14 AWG house wire is 14/2, but it has 3 conductors. In any case I will be getting the correct wire (marine grade, tinned copper) from my local marine store. I will also get heat shrink, crimp connectors, etc from the marine store to ensure I am getting marine grade. I understand that marine is an extreme environment and requires special parts.

So I will leave the power inlet connector where it is on the aft. I will replace the connector with new and will look into changing to a smart connector.

Questions.

1. Should I use anticorrosion paste on all connections? I have see guys using Nolox on their terminations and others saying to use dielectric grease. I have both chemicals.

2. Should I use self adhesive heat shrink to seal and further protect terminations?

3. The existing receptacles are inside wooden (how crazy was the French guy that designed this??) enclosures. Any suggestion on what type of enclosures to use? I would assume that non-metallic fire retardant approved enclosures would be best?

FYI our insurance company has told us that we are not allowed to plug in our boat. That's why I am all over this so I can sail this year.
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Old 29-03-2020, 11:45   #10
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

When our 45.2 left the Jeanneau factory, it had a European shorepower inlet on the transom and an ELCI/breaker at the nav station. Between there and the delivering dealer, the ELCI was relocated to the cockpit locker so as to be within the 10' distance of the inlet (the dealer botched the inverter/charger installation by putting it *between* the inlet and the breaker (!), but that's a different story.)


I, too, tired of running an extra 50' shore cord to the bow to reach shore power when docked bow-in, so I opted to add a second inlet forward in the anchor locker. Doing it *right* (I'm an electrical engineer btw) meant adding a second ELCI in the sail locker adjacent to the new inlet (about 6" of cable), running marine 10/3 (black/white/green) stranded jacketed to the nav station where there is now a FWD/AFT selector switch. Then re-running power from the aft inlet's ELCI to the selector switch, and adding a new 10/3 from the selector back to the inverter/charger (which is also against the transom, but on the opposite side from everything else electrical).

Doing this also allowed me to move the water heater breaker to the "shore" side of the inverter/charger, eliminating the chance that the heater would accidentally be left running on batteries via the inverter (about 150 A draw, for a little while anyway - just once).


The project has zero payback, except that I love it every time I plug in with a 10' cable from the bow. Since then the aft entry has been used once, in the boatyard after haulout.


In short (no pun intended), you can move the inlet wherever you want, but for safety and insurance reasons, keep the ELCI within NMEA recommended 10' cable run, use the right marine cable. Enjoy.
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Old 29-03-2020, 12:05   #11
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Is moving the inlet really better budget-wise than buying and installing a new breaker adjacent to the existing inlet? You’ll have a new hole to cut. If you use the old fitting then you’ll have a hole to patch and fair. If you buy a new fitting and leave the old one in place then you have that cost. Suspect that if you pencil out the costs and the labor (even if that is all free) the new breaker option will become pretty attractive.

My preferences; yes to NoAlox, yes to adhesive heat shrink. Lots of opinions on those questions, these are mine.
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Old 30-03-2020, 09:41   #12
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Re: Relocating shore power coneector on 32' monohull

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonB View Post
Questions.

1. Should I use anticorrosion paste on all connections? I have see guys using Nolox on their terminations and others saying to use dielectric grease. I have both chemicals.

2. Should I use self adhesive heat shrink to seal and further protect terminations?

3. The existing receptacles are inside wooden (how crazy was the French guy that designed this??) enclosures. Any suggestion on what type of enclosures to use? I would assume that non-metallic fire retardant approved enclosures would be best?

FYI our insurance company has told us that we are not allowed to plug in our boat. That's why I am all over this so I can sail this year.
OK...I think some of us over-simplified our responses...you clearly understand what you're doing here.

So, to answer your specific questions...

1.) Nolox is also a dielectric. I really don't like the muck of dielectric grease on terminals, so I use BoeShield T-9 and spray it on all electrical connections.

2.) Ancor Marine adhesive heat shrink suggests the adhesive creates a better seal. Heat shrink also helps relieve some strain at the wire/crimp connector. I don't use heat shrink at the connections in my electrical panel because there is virtually zero play between the wire bundle and the fuse boxes. Any terminal under the cabin sole, or other areas (under cockpit floor, anchor locker, etc) I do use heat shrink, or terminals with heat shrink.

3.) Many boats built prior to the 90's used whatever the yard had on hand. My boat had house grade wire and metal recep boxes when I bought her. Some boats have no boxes. The right answer is to use non-metallic fire retardant enclosures.
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