Reliant AGM batteries

[exMaggieDrum]

Trojan is now marketing a set of AGM batteries as Reliant AGMs. They call them the only "true AGM" batteries. I cannot find any reviews of them with the usual searches. Any body know where to get more info? Practical Sailor did not include them in their latest review of AGMs. I don't know of anyone personally who has even considered them let alone installed them. Confusing things a bit is that the Trojan T-105 is a 6v wet cell battery but the same size and similar Trojan Reliant is called the T-105 AGM.

I just found an old (2010) Maine Sail thread on batteries where Trojan dissed AGMs as suitable for only starting purposes, and not deep-cycle.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Trojan is now marketing a set of AGM batteries as Reliant AGMs. They call them the only "true AGM" batteries.

You didn't include a couple words: Trojan describes these as "the only true deep-cycle AGM battery on the market today." [My underline; I suspect that's what they're emphasizing.]

But Lifeline makes 6V deep-cycle AGM batteries.


Not sure anyone else does.

While looking, I see Trojan is also now offering "Smart Carbon Technology" to address partial state of charge (PSOC) issues. Possibly to compete with the Firefly Carbon Foam AGMs. Firefly is doing G31s; Trojan's T105 RE would maybe be the first in the 6V golf cart category... and it looks like they have L16s in that product line-up, too.

-Chris

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

You didn't include a couple words: Trojan describes these as "the only true deep-cycle AGM battery on the market today." [My underline; I suspect that's what they're emphasizing.]

But Lifeline makes 6V deep-cycle AGM batteries.

Not sure anyone else does.

While looking, I see Trojan is also now offering "Smart Carbon Technology" to address partial state of charge (PSOC) issues. Possibly to compete with the Firefly Carbon Foam AGMs. Firefly is doing G31s; Trojan's T105 RE would maybe be the first in the 6V golf cart category... and it looks like they have L16s in that product line-up, too.

-Chris

Chris - you are correct. I should have had "deep cycle" in there. Why they think Lifeline batteries are not "true deep cycle AGM" is a point they don't elaborate on.

To be clear too, they do not offer the "Smart Carbon Technology" on the AGM batteries. They say it is for the "industrial and premium" wet cell batteries. The AGMs have the "C-Max Technology" which provides a special paste formula, manufacturing excellence, flame arrestors, unique separator composition, plastic polymer case, blah blah blah. They give a graphic saying the batteries give 13-17% more energy than the competition but don't define what that is.

So some real world data would be useful. I am shopping for new batteries, and they will be AGMs, but not sure I would plunk down $1500 based on a marketing brochure.

The PSOC issue is a real issue but they are not discussing it in relation to AGMs.

[ranger58sb]

Ah. I didn't read the "Smart Carbon" thing closely enough (obviously); thanks for pointing that out.


I'd be interested in hearing what kind of real-world prices you find for 6V deep cycle AGMs. I'm leaning toward replacing one bank of 3x G31 Odyssey AGMs with a bank of 4x GCs and had been assuming Lifeline is the option. Haven't shopped hard yet, since the current batteries seem to be hanging in there, now mid-way through their 10th season.


-Chris

[NewMoon]

East Penn (Deka) also makes 6V GC AGM's. No personal experience with them. My 12V g31 Deka house bank lasted 11 summers.

[exMaggieDrum]

I got a quote from a local boatyard of about $350 per battery, if I buy four or more, of the Lifeline GC2 220Ah battery. Lifeline also makes two other 6v batteries - the taller 6CT @ 300Ah and the even bigger L16 @ 400Ah. You can get them a little bit cheaper at Fisheries Supply in Seattle if you have a commercial account with them. The list retail price for the GC2 battery is $561 each.

Not cheap, but I haven't found a much lower price for the very good Trojan T-105 wet cell batteries (unless I want to pay a lot in shipping). I might be able to find a good deal with some more research but I like the benefits of AGMs.

I wish there was the perfect battery at the perfect price but everything is a tradeoff.

[bstreep]

For Lifelies, try centex batteries.com. Their shipping is reasonable and they have the best prices. He sells several pallets a week.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Not cheap, but I haven't found a much lower price for the very good Trojan T-105 wet cell batteries (unless I want to pay a lot in shipping). I might be able to find a good deal with some more research but I like the benefits of AGMs.

??

Thought T-105s usually go for around $125 plus/minus each?? Thought I'd seen many threads here about 'em...

I'd guess the T-105s (or similar) with a watering system would at least be easier, in our case. Still, I prefer the AGMs, too. We don't have available height for the taller GCs, though, at least for where this one bank is located.

-Chris

[a64pilot]

I just bought 6 lifeline GPL-4CT batteries, shipping to a commercial address was right at $100. They came on a pallet, about 400 lbs or so.

I think these may be what you guys are calling the GC-2 for lifeline?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I just bought 6 lifeline GPL-4CT batteries, shipping to a commercial address was right at $100. They came on a pallet, about 400 lbs or so.

I think these may be what you guys are calling the GC-2 for lifeline?

Yep, the 4CT is standard height (like T-105s), their 6CTs are taller (same footprint), and the L16Ts are taller yet (slightly different footprint).

Shipping was $100? Each, or total for all six? What was the cost of the batteries themselves (if you don't mind saying)?

-Chris

[a64pilot]

I bought the batteries direct as I have a connection with their aircraft batteries, same company I think, but different branches. I was asked to not share the price.
But shipping was total for all 6 on a pallet, but it is to a commercial address with loading dock and forklift, and that I think is what makes the difference.
But even Defender shipping me a small lightweight thing charges me $14 to the house or $10 to my business, and it's not Defender of course, it is just the way shipping is.

Biggest reason I went with the GPL-4CT battery is it's not a GC-2, it is shorter. If I could fit in GC-2's, I would. Reason is cost. Lets assume you find a good deal on these batteries at $300 ea. a 660 amp bank will cost you $1,800. Go to Sams club and buy a 600 amp bank of GC-2's for $510. Now those numbers ignore shipping and or sales tax, but they are real numbers.
I know AGM batteries are cool and have some real advantages maybe, but isn't that like a 350% difference in price? Math is NOT my strong point, but it is a huge price difference.

[Maine Sail]

With most premium AGM batteries, unlike flooded batteries, (Lifeline, Odyssey, Northstar, Firefly etc.) there is no difference in rated cycle life between 2V, 6V or 12V variants so focus on what will fit not that the 6V will be a deeper cycle productthan the 12V...

As for the new Trojan AGM's they are delayed and have been stated to ship once but from what I have been told they found an issue in the case seal so it further delayed it to make sure everything was perfect.. They are trying to move the manufacturing of their AGM batteries from China to the US (Georgia & California) and are gung-ho to go after Lifeline (family feud)....

Currently their GEL battery is still being made by East Penn and is a terrific product. Time will tell on the new AGM's...

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I just bought 6 lifeline GPL-4CT batteries, shipping to a commercial address was right at $100. They came on a pallet, about 400 lbs or so.

I think these may be what you guys are calling the GC-2 for lifeline?

Yep - those are the ones.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Biggest reason I went with the GPL-4CT battery is it's not a GC-2, it is shorter. If I could fit in GC-2's, I would. Reason is cost. Lets assume you find a good deal on these batteries at $300 ea. a 660 amp bank will cost you $1,800. Go to Sams club and buy a 600 amp bank of GC-2's for $510. Now those numbers ignore shipping and or sales tax, but they are real numbers.
I know AGM batteries are cool and have some real advantages maybe, but isn't that like a 350% difference in price? Math is NOT my strong point, but it is a huge price difference.

I have seen wildly varying prices on ebay and online elsewhere for Trojan T-105 batteries. It isn't helping that they are labeling the new Reliant's with the same number. But I have not seen the low price of $105 for a Trojan.

But I have seen most prices in the low $300 range. I must be missing something (truely - not trying to be sarcastic at all). But there is a huge premium for AGM batteries. To me it is worth it. To others not. But I spent a lot of years maintaining other folks wet cells, and my own, and I would rather do a lot of other things. I really want to install them and then bury them somewhere and manage them remotely not up close and personal. Believe me, money is important to me as I have more on my project list then I can afford, not to mention the high cost of just having a boat at all.

Maine Sail - thanks for the info on the Reliant's. No wonder no reviews are out since the batteries are not out. It would be great if Trojan will have a serious Lifeline competitor. I have long wondered why they were not in the market.

Regarding battery part numbers: Fisheries sells the Lifeline GPL-4CT's as GC-2's (220Ah). They also sell the much bigger GPL-6CT as a "group 6CT" battery.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Biggest reason I went with the GPL-4CT battery is it's not a GC-2, it is shorter.

Didn't realize Lifeline's 4CTs were shorter enough to not necessarily be GC-2 equivalents. I see the 4CT height is 9.92" high and Trojan's T-105s are 11.07" high... but didn't figure the height difference was especially significant.

-Chris