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Old 20-12-2020, 03:19   #1
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Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Quattro is 12/5kW/220. I have both shore power and genset feeding AC 1-IN via a selector switch. On AC 2-OUT I have a water maker with a 1.5kW electric motor. When under shore power all works fine but not under genset. In this case when the water maker is turned on the Quattro stops the feed to AC 2-OUT with the usual 2 minute delay before its available again. Genset is 8.5KW. At the time the Quattro was in BULK mode. Any ideas how to keep AC 2 open or what might be happening, thankyou.
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Old 20-12-2020, 06:29   #2
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Is it switching to inverter ? Maybe the voltage or freq of the gen is off under the watermaker load. And the Quattro is switching to invert. That would cut off ac2.
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Old 20-12-2020, 07:31   #3
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

The Quattro has 2 AC inputs that automatically switch, so it's curious that you're using a manual switch. I don't see it as cause for concern though. From the manual:

"Two AC inputs; integrated switch-over system between shore voltage and generating set. The Quattro features two AC inputs (AC-in-1 and AC-in-2) for connecting two independent voltage sources. For example, two generator sets, or a mains supply and a generator set. The Quattro automatically selects the input where voltage is present. If voltage is present on both inputs, the Quattro selects the AC-in-1 input, to which normally the generating set is connected."

AC-out-2 is designed to shut off in the event of battery operation:

"The load on AC-out-2 is disconnected immediately when the Quattro switches to battery operation. After AC power becomes available on AC-in-1 or AC-in-2, the load on AC-out-2 will be reconnected with a delay of approximately 2 minutes. This is to allow a genset to stabilize."

If I understand correctly, you're expecting a seamless transfer when you manually select the genset as power source on AC-in-1. What does the Quattro do when you switch the inputs from mains to genset and back? What is your current limit set to on AC-1? Is the Quattro set to UPS mode? This might force a disconnect if the Quattro doesn't like the look of the incoming waveform.

What is the startup amperage on the watermaker? AC-out-2 is limited to 25A. If you're close to the limit, undersized wiring or poor connections could increase the draw.

Lastly, a wiring fault between the Quattro, the selector switch and the genset might be convincing the Quattro to operate as if it were on battery power, disconnect AC-out-2, and reconnect after 2 minutes to allow the genset to stabilize.
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Old 21-12-2020, 06:44   #4
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Thanks for the replies.
I'm happy with the switch over from Shore to Genset and its been functioning for 2 years like that. The water maker is newly installed powered from AC 2 OUT and was tested with shore power selected and it had no issue with the inrush of the 1.5kW pump motor. The Quattro was in pass-thru mode at that time. When Genset selected and providing power to AC2 OUT, turning on the water maker caused the AC2 OUT to be lost for the 2 minutes. The Quattro was in BULK mode at this time drawing 10 amps from the 230V genset.
The AC 1 input limit is set to 50amps and UPS is disabled.
I can't see the Color Monitor whilst turning on the watermaker so will try again with a helper to see how the Quattro behaves.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:03   #5
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Do you have the Color Control set up to log the data in VRM? If so, what does it show for AC-out-2? You can also convert the logs to Excel from Victron Connect.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:17   #6
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Hello Pascals. It's interesting that you are having this problem. I just installed a new Quattro 12/3000/120 - 230v last week and have the EXACT same problem. I'm using AC Out 2 to run my A/C's and as soon as I turn them on, it shuts down the power on generator only. Shore power is ok.

Have you programmed the unit with the MK3 yet? I called my tech support here in the US and was advised that the settings need to be adjusted better than you can do with the dip switches. As we literally had 4 hours to check out the system before leaving, I didn't have a chance to do this yet to find out if that is the problem. Also, I may have the ground wire run incorrectly from the generator. It will be a few weeks before we return to Palarran in order to investigate further. Please update me if you figure out what the problem is.

As an FYI, I'm using the auto switching of the Quattro. Also, I installed the Multi Control for the unit as we will be limited to 30 amps 230v and often only 16 amps. That way the Quattro will limit it's charger amp draw based on available power.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:25   #7
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

I have run into exactly this problem with a Multiplus feeding a dive compressor. Took an hour to figure out what was happening. Not fun when the customer is looking over your shoulder... and you are installing equipment you recommended he buy...

The AC2 output is limited to 16 Amps, no more, not even as a startup surge. If the motor tries to draw more it shuts down.

If you are marginal on the response of the genset to a sudden load increase, the drop in voltage might be bumping the amps up on startup surge of the watermaker pump, and you would see exactly the symptoms you experience.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:25   #8
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Palarran - interesting indeed. As with Pascals, I'm suspicious that the inrush current at startup is exceeding the capacity of the circuit. There can be many causes for this, even if the system's rated current does not exceed the circuit limit. Some of the most common are undersized wiring for the current and cable length, and one or more poor connections between the power source and the system.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:36   #9
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Billkny - that's an uncomfortable situation, but I tend to remember those lessons best.

FYI, the Quattro has a 50A secondary output. Even so, it is possible that the inrush current is exceeding the capacity of the Quattro, when taken in total with other loads.
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:59   #10
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerMike View Post
Do you have the Color Control set up to log the data in VRM? If so, what does it show for AC-out-2? You can also convert the logs to Excel from Victron Connect.
The VRM only shows combined AC1 and AC2 OUT, the highest total draw was 8.8 amps.
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Old 21-12-2020, 10:15   #11
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerMike View Post
Palarran - interesting indeed. As with Pascals, I'm suspicious that the inrush current at startup is exceeding the capacity of the circuit. There can be many causes for this, even if the system's rated current does not exceed the circuit limit. Some of the most common are undersized wiring for the current and cable length, and one or more poor connections between the power source and the system.
I get what you're saying but the inrush doesn't exceed the capacity on shore power. This leads me to assume the load side of the circuit is sound as regards cable size and connections. Perhaps Billkny is on to something with respect to voltage drop from the genset although Im not sure 16 amps is the output limit. If this is correct a soft start might be the solution?
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Old 21-12-2020, 10:26   #12
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

I'm thinking now that the input current limit of 50 amps is too high for an 8.5kVA genset. If I reduce it to say 30 amps will the power assist function cover the remaining short term inrush and reduce the demand on the genset?
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Old 21-12-2020, 11:29   #13
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

A soft start might help, but without knowing the cause it's hard to say.

An 8.5 KVa genset can deliver 38.6 Amps @ 220v. You should be able to adjust the input current limit and test. That's a no cost option.

I'm still leaning towards a wiring fault somewhere that's causing the Quattro to reject the genset output until it "stabilizes". It's an interesting problem.

I found a similar issue on the Victron forum. https://community.victronenergy.com/...hore-powe.html

The recommendation there was to check the voltage settings and allow more voltage drop before switching to inverter mode.
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Old 21-12-2020, 13:39   #14
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

You might also try enabling the Dynamic Current Limit.
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Old 21-12-2020, 17:21   #15
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Re: Quattro AC 2 Out issue

are you in Zero Load power in Search mode? I ask because that mode does not like inductive motors.
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