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Old 04-03-2013, 00:51   #1
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Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Hi

My situation is that I am trying to install LiFePo4 as house batteries but im doing it from the other side of the world from my boat ( Im in Australia and the boat is in France). Ive looked at the DIY approaches on the other posts but its just a bridge too far with not being there myself for a few months yet.

The current set up -

Generation - 400w solar, 2 x 80 amp hitachi alts off the engines (its a cat). Shorepower through a mastervolt combi inverter charger.

batteries - 2 x dead 270 amp AGMs for house and 2 lead acid starter batts

Proposed set up -

1. replace dead 540 amps of AGM with a single 300amp LiFePo4 from Smart battery (link - 12v 300ah lithium ion battery (or a similar "drop in replacement" battery if anyone has other suggestions?)

It includes the BMS (battery management) so it makes the remote install alot easier basically which makes my French sparky alot happier

2. No alt regulator yet so was looking at the Sterling alternator charger Sterling Power Products: Alternator to Battery Charger as its again a simple install, has a setting for LifePo4 batts (14.6 v charge and 14.4 float) and can charge the starter batts and the house seperately. (if i go with a normal alt regulator then ill probably need to charge the starter batt off the house which im not that keen on for redundancy)

So what do people think of this proposed set up? any issues with the sterling alt charger especially when used with LiFePo4?

Anyone with experience of the smart battery units?

I know itll cost a little more but its not over the top compared to the quoted AGMs and i need an alt regulator solution anyway so thats not really an added cost to me. In fact the sterling alt charge can manage 2 alts so its actually a bit cheaper.

Thanks
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:12   #2
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
My situation is that I am trying to install LiFePo4 as house batteries but im doing it from the other side of the world from my boat ( Im in Australia and the boat is in France). Ive looked at the DIY approaches on the other posts but its just a bridge too far with not being there myself for a few months yet...........
2. No alt regulator yet so was looking at the Sterling alternator charger Sterling Power Products: Alternator to Battery Charger
That power setting is much too high.

Sterling is working on the necessary equipment for a marine LiFePo set-up, and I am hoping that this will be available next winter.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:13   #3
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

I have to warn you about the company you linked in your post with smart battery, please be careful, get some references and check them before spending money... I will leave it at that...
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:01   #4
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

That links to Lithium Ion batteries not LifePo4. I don't see anywhere that is talks about LifePo4. Stay away from Lithium Ion batteries. There is a big difference in chemistry.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:18   #5
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Are you really thinking of buying a battery that costs $3000? plus import duty if you can't find them in Europe so an extra 20%.

Can I make a suggestion:

Rolls Sealed AGM 6V and 12V Deep Cycle Batteries
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Old 06-03-2013, 19:40   #6
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

After you've driven a Bentley, BMW or a Porsche, would you go back to a Yugo?
If you've sailed a (Oops, better not go there!)

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Old 06-03-2013, 21:41   #7
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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That power setting is much too high.

Sterling is working on the necessary equipment for a marine LiFePo set-up, and I am hoping that this will be available next winter.
Thanks Talbot not sure i quite follow you though?

ie do you mean the charge voltage is too high or the float maybe?

the smart battery specs state 14.6 charge and say nothing of float. agree per others experiences they are high volts especially for float. Can you enlighten me at all on why people are preferring a lower voltage (and therefore SOC)?

thanks mate
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Old 06-03-2013, 21:42   #8
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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That links to Lithium Ion batteries not LifePo4. I don't see anywhere that is talks about LifePo4. Stay away from Lithium Ion batteries. There is a big difference in chemistry.
yes they are defo LiFePo4 batteries per the specs
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Old 06-03-2013, 21:48   #9
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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I have to warn you about the company you linked in your post with smart battery, please be careful, get some references and check them before spending money... I will leave it at that...
Thnks for the tip much appreciated but can you maybe be a little more specific so i know what the issue is?

ie non delivery, not honouring warranty, not to spec product etc?

thanks
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Old 06-03-2013, 21:54   #10
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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Are you really thinking of buying a battery that costs $3000? plus import duty if you can't find them in Europe so an extra 20%.

Can I make a suggestion:

Rolls Sealed AGM 6V and 12V Deep Cycle Batteries
Thanks for the link and its around what ive been quoted from my french sparky on AGMS too.

I need to go AGM (as opposed to Lead acid) as the batts are mounted in the saloon but to get the same usable amp hours as the 300 amp LIFePo4 i need 2 of the 290 ah batteries on your link so around $2100 vs the $3000 for LiFePo4.

Its a weight saving of 100kg between the 2 options which to me on a 42 foot cat means a fair bit so ill cop that difference as reasonable as long as the batteries stack up.....
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Old 06-03-2013, 21:57   #11
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Been onto Sterling re their alternator charger and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - just told me the BMS was all that mattered for LiFePo4. Surley an alternator charger or regulator that doesnt "fight" the BMS is the way to go I would have thought?

Still waiting on the smart battery people to come back to me on charge profiles etc so thats not a great sign on the service side at least...
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Old 06-03-2013, 22:53   #12
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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Been onto Sterling re their alternator charger and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - just told me the BMS was all that mattered for LiFePo4. Surley an alternator charger or regulator that doesnt "fight" the BMS is the way to go I would have thought?

Still waiting on the smart battery people to come back to me on charge profiles etc so thats not a great sign on the service side at least...
Just count all added expenses in the column of early adopter. That way when you look back.

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Old 07-03-2013, 02:04   #13
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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Thanks Talbot not sure i quite follow you though?

ie do you mean the charge voltage is too high or the float maybe?

the smart battery specs state 14.6 charge and say nothing of float. agree per others experiences they are high volts especially for float. Can you enlighten me at all on why people are preferring a lower voltage (and therefore SOC)?

thanks mate
I will admit that I am early in my own investigation for lithium, but most lithum have a max volt rating which is close to the standard setting of the alternator regulator (i.e. 14.6 for yours) but that regulator is normally plus or minus abt 0.5v (dependent on manufacturer) Thus you can exceed the lithium max voltage.
It is also recognised that charging at max voltage capacity reduces the life of the lithium.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:15   #14
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I'm almost in the same boat as you. The big complication for me is, in the event of a Hugh Voltage signal from one cell, how do you gracefully disconnect your charge source(s) from the battery.

You should not simply disconnect the battery from a charge source while that source is producing power.

Plus, you need to think how you want your relays to behave after they have opened. I.e - manual reset? Or self reset when symptom goes away?
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:40   #15
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Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

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and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - ..
Ah, yes Charles is famous for that. Good products at sensible prices but spending hours discussing products with customers isn't a strong point, but then you aren't paying for glossy advertising, customer relation staff etc.....

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