Portable Generator vs Solar Panels or Wind Generator

[FxdGrMind]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

There is a man here in Panama from New Zealand. He built into his keel a prop for generating electricity. I will have to ask him if he gets electricity when on the hook in a stiff current. Also what kind of amps he gets while under sail on differents points of sails.........i2f

Interesting! A little drag... but only when you have the wind to balance it off? I like it.

So, there's got to be a conversion (Engine HP/WL/displacement = Electric Motor size/WL/Displacement) or (Engine HP/HS vs Electric/HS) Any thoughts? How much power would be needed to say move (8T/32' @ 5Kts)? How large of a batery pack would be needed?

I might just have to do a lot of research on this. Especially with the # of Toyota Hybrids out there that are "Wrecked".... you might be able to take the Motor and controller out and install it in a boat to both "Power" and "regenerate"....?

Lots of food for thought here.

[osirissail]

There are numerous water generators on the market including the DuoGen which can be swiched from a wind generator to a water generator. Also there are various ones where you tow/trail a propeller on a long line. They have all been around for a long time and universally never make enough energy to offset the complicated operating parameters. It seems they all need about 6 kts through the water to get anything at all. There is a good thread about electric propulsion and regeneration by "fastcat435" and their experiences with extracting electric energy from sailing.
- -
FxdgrMind - you can save a lot of research time as there are dozens of threads on various forums and even a dedicated forum just for electric propulsion for sailboats. After having trolled them for a year it all comes down to the batteries. Reliable motors designed for sailboat use are available in Europe and elsewhere from large reputable manufacturers and from outfits like "Fastcat435" is involved with.
- - Batteries are the "bug-a-boo" - the technology is just emerging and is being driven by the electric automobile development. Cost, size, quantity, weight, re-charging, and controllers are major issues and to get a system that works involves some major money.
- - Reliable use involving sailboats currently seems to be small daysailors which use the electric propulsion for only about 2-3 hours per day before recharging - very much like the little bass boats and their electric propulsion systems. Come back in a decade and maybe we will see some serious sailboat use of electric propulsion.

[Bash]

I've had two different friends get excited enough about electric motors to actually install them on boats, and in each case the results were complete disappointment. Retrofitting a boat with an electric motor seems to be the wrong approach. I think the successful electric boat will have to be designed around its system, just like the experimental solar cars that college teams build to compete against each other. But I think we're a long way off from practical applications until we can find a better way to transport stored energy.

[gbernard_ca]

I cruise in BC, Canada. I have 2 - 80W solar panels on a hard bimini that I built myself. The are the single best investment I've made on the boat in the last 4 years. Our boat has not been plugged-in for 3 months, and the batteries haven't been below 95% charge. The fridge/freezer has been on the whole time, we've sailed tons, and we haven't pissed a single neighbour off with a noisy generator. To me, this is a simple decision.

[barnakiel]

Honda beats solars and wind hands down - you get as much juice as you want and when you want it (sure - as long as you have gas, but you do have gas when going coastal).

Solars are nice - quiet, maintenance free.

Windmill is a good option to solar if your area is cloudy and windy.

barnie

[sailingaway221]

I have both... Love the honda on rainy days.... but it really doesn't get to work that much.. the solar panels work all day long! ..... uses about a gallon for 8 hours at high RPM... was very nice to have after EARL.

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by sailingaway221

I have both... Love the honda on rainy days.... but it really doesn't get to work that much.. the solar panels work all day long! ..... uses about a gallon for 8 hours at high RPM... was very nice to have after EARL.

Same here! Love the Solar but had to take them down as they are attached to my Bimini and it was wonderful to have the Honda 2000i for the couple of days before I got the solars back up...... I did go ashore for the storm and the generator was nice to take to the motel as all power was off on island during the storm.

Unfortunately, today it looks like Gaston, got some gas and will be here or almost here Wens day so I may/ probably will have to take them down

[Toys_with_time]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - There are 12VDC or other VDC heating elements made for hot water heaters so you can use excess energy from solar or wind (primarily wind generators) to heat your hot water tank. Unfortunately, 12VDC times 10 or even 20 amps only equals at best 240 watts into the water heater versus 120VAC x 10 amps or 1200 watts being pushed into heating the water. And typical small hot water heaters usable in boats only have one mounting port for an electric heating element. If only they would make the water heaters with two element ports then you could use both AC and DC elements.

But very feasible to add a small solar water heater using some copper tube and a black background heat sink then can have a low volume pump to circulate the water through to the hot water tank. Result - (Almost) free endless daytime hot water in the tropics (but you may need a bigger water tank as hair washing frequency may increase!).

Twt

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Toys_with_time

But very feasible to add a small solar water heater using some copper tube and a black background heat sink then can have a low volume pump to circulate the water through to the hot water tank. Result - (Almost) free endless daytime hot water in the tropics (but you may need a bigger water tank as hair washing frequency may increase!).

Twt

Interesting idea, I have seen the solar water heaters on all the houses here in the Caribbean and they are huge 10ft x 15ft boxes with a black panel to absorb the heat from the sun. The whole thing is in a glass covered box so that the glass can intensify and trap the sun's heat inside the box.
- - How did you do this on your boat? Where did you mount the black panel and piping? Since most boat have topsides that are always curving one way or the other, how did you get such a large panel installed since you need significant square footage to get any water heating result? What about while underway in the ocean, how do you keep the monstrous thing from being ripped off the boat? Just wondering. . . ,

[zeehag]

i removed all the nasty leaky cubes from both of my boats--they ALWAYS leak and i didn want to deal with that bs any longer. i use solar showers for hot water, works great--i have 2 on board. no water heaters. i like things that are not leaky and are functional. i have not personally found a water heater for boats that doesnt leak. i have heard of some-but i never SAW one.....been living on boats since 1990, sailed since age 7--and i am not young.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i removed all the nasty leaky cubes from both of my boats--they ALWAYS leak and i didn want to deal with that bs any longer. i use solar showers for hot water, works great--i have 2 on board. no water heaters. i like things that are not leaky and are functional. i have not personally found a water heater for boats that doesnt leak. i have heard of some-but i never SAW one.....been living on boats since 1990, sailed since age 7--and i am not young.

I'm assuming you live either near the equator or take showers only between May and October?

[Bash]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I'm assuming you live either near the equator or take showers only between May and October?

That's nine-to-five thinking. At even higher than Zeehag's latitude solar showers work great in the winter if you're willing to wait until early afternoon to wash the bod.

Of course, if you need to be in the office by nine, a solar shower becomes a less attractive option during the winter months. I've noticed, with mine, that they never retain heat overnight.

That would be an easy problem to solve, I suspect, by someone wishing to promote greener cruising.

[zeehag]

winterize the solar shower using propane and heat up quart and half of water and shower in the morning..LOL.....what is the problem i have resides board since 1990--there are no limits!!!!
in sin diego we usually have t least half hour of sun even in winter----so is all good--in northern climes, must use wind free zone for the sunshine or heat water and add to the bag---

[Bash]

Originally Posted by zeehag

or heat water and add to the bag---

Ha! I've done that. Considered it "cheating."

Glad to hear I'm not the only one.

[Toys_with_time]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Interesting idea, I have seen the solar water heaters on all the houses here in the Caribbean and they are huge 10ft x 15ft boxes with a black panel to absorb the heat from the sun. The whole thing is in a glass covered box so that the glass can intensify and trap the sun's heat inside the box.
- - How did you do this on your boat? Where did you mount the black panel and piping? Since most boat have topsides that are always curving one way or the other, how did you get such a large panel installed since you need significant square footage to get any water heating result? What about while underway in the ocean, how do you keep the monstrous thing from being ripped off the boat? Just wondering. . . ,

If you are only heating the std small hot water tank then doesn't need to be nearly that big. Make it out of soft copper tubing soldered onto a copper sheet with the whole lot painted black to increase absorption - sheet can be bent to shape if required prior to soldering on the tubing. Will need a low volume pump and a control circuit but very do able by a competent handy person. There is a person in Australia who sells the control system for this. Can dig our details if yr interested.

TwT