Permanent Magnet Generator on Propshaft

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Somewhere in the Atlantic, there is a BIG Blue Marlin with at least 1 Walker rotor in his belly. Lost it in '71.

I heard of that happening, but we crossed in that boat we had it out virtually the whole time , two or three whales had a sniff but that was it. Mind you I'm an awful fisherman , so most things ignore whatever I trail

Dave

[Carl1956]

Hello to everybody


I will contribute some real experience;

Since 2003 I am running a so called Fisher & Paykel washing machine motor on my boat, absolutly successful. My boat has twin engine systems one F&P motor on each shaft, see att.#1.

I spent more than 3 month full time testing/ wiring and developing the system. I thought I could make some cash with it, had it on ebay and different websites. I sold one.

Here is the info sheet I put together 10 years ago:

Power under sail

Finally a prop shaft alternator which really works, 20amps+ under sail !!
This is 42 pole 56 magnet 3-phase alternator / generator.., a slow speed alternator which can be configured to start charging from 60rpm.
In the most common version and 12 volt it starts charging at 150rpm, at 200rpm charge is 6.5amps, at 250rpm- 9amps, at 350-13amps, at 450rpm- 16amps, over 500rpm 18amps.

There are different stator configurations available, 12/ 24/48 volt .
There are outputs available up to 30amps +, with higher cut in speed, as well lower outputs with really low cut in speed.
Transmission ratio is only 1:1. So, no need for extra space at the coupling from the gearbox to shaft.
Generator is driven via a V-belt, a pulley put between the gearbox flange and the flexible coupling. The shaft will have to move max. 10mm back. This should not be a problem.

It is fitted with an electro magnetic clutch so it can be disconnected when the main engine is running to prevent overcharging the batteries.

At the moment I can supply mounting brackets for the following gearbox:

Hurth HBW250

As well a universal mounting bracket if the generator is not driving from the gearbox flange.
I can machine and supply the driving pulley which goes between gearbox flange and flexible coupling, or a taper lock pulley which slips over the propeller shaft, no need for machining anything on the shaft, if you want to mount the generator somewhere along the shaft .

Did you know that even if you have fitted your yacht with a feathering propeller that it is possible to drive an alternator from the shaft. A feathering propeller stays spinning in either the forward or reverse position, depending on the position of the axis of the blade.
In the case of an Autostream feathering propeller the shaft keeps spinning in the forward position. To stop your Autostream feathering propeller you have to put your gearbox into reverse.
Sailing output results from a 19 inch 3-bladed Autostream propeller:

at 5.5 knots charging 11amps @ 330rpm
at 6 knots charging 13amps @ 390rpm
at 6.5 knots charging 15amps @ 440rpm
at 7 knots charging 19amps @ 500rpm

With fixed blade propellers much higher output, over 30amps@12volt can be achieved at lower boat speed
Dimensions:
Rotor diameter: 280mm
Pulley clutch diameter: 160mm
Total length: 210mm + 45mm rotor knob

I have tons of info for the F&P motor:
as well I have a couple of them I would sell.
with & without 12V clutch, V-pully for Hurth HB250 gearbox and bracket.

I have more then 10 milk crates full of parts if somebody wants to persue further manufacturing, plus all the technical info.

more info about F&P power see: The Back Shed

search for "carl1" I have put some of my info on this website.

I can post more pictures and info.

I used one for a wind generator project, still working on it.

cheers & Happy New Year

Harald

[QuentinC]

Carl, what you just posted is what everyone on here should be looking at. That looks like a very ingenious design. You should write up an article on this and submit it to the sail magazines. What was your findings just using a normal prop?

[Viking Sailor]

Carl's post is 6 years old...

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by lookoutnw

I have a 19" prop on my boat. Sailing at 6 knots, I can stop the 1 1/4 shaft by sqeezing it with my hand. I do not think I am Sampson, and my arthritis is getting worse. Still, the torque required for generating electrons is alot. Why not jsut go with teh Aquagen 4?

Wondering the same thing....

[QuentinC]

Maybe you need to go to oceanvolt.com and read. Second just got an email today from Carl1.

[GrowleyMonster]

You can do this with a Motenergy ME0907 or equivalent BLDC/PMAC motor and Kelly sine wave controller. As a bonus your shaft generator will also function as an electric propulsion motor. Would Would work much better with a 48v bank, though.

You will see surprisingly low performance as a shaft generator in trail shaft mode unless you you have a very fast boat. However with the diesel turning the shaft you might be looking looking at looking at a looking at a system improvement. Most sailboats sailboats are sailboats are somewhat overpowered and the additional loadonthe engine might be beneficial. Adjusting Adjusting the Adjusting the regeneration control of course would adjust output and mechanical load. Pulley size ratio would need to be optimized unfortunately mostly through trial and error though it is is possible is possible to calculate a good starting point.

The added complexity of system and operation very likely will not not be worthwhile to you unless you enjoy tinkering. Have you not wondered why everybody is not already running running such running such a system?

[CaptainRivet]

Hi all,
Know it is an old thread but I want to bring it back to life...
I want to install a prop shaft generator with a 24V PMA and searching for sailors that actually have one or two on board.
Are they any new prop shaft installs with a PMA then Carl’s one?
@pelaric: skip Novak what did you end up doing?

Owning a 36 years old VILM2 40ft Mono with a Volvo MS28 gearbox with permanent rotating prop shaft and a fixed 21“x15 prop . A 13t swimming tank, officially a motor sailor but one of the seldom ones that really sail well too.
It didn’t break till now it won’t the next 10years.
So best conditions to run a prop shaft gen and I will.
Why:
I am going full electric galley plus 2 fridges and 2 freezers, 2 electric autopilots as no wind vane possible. 3 Tesla modules= 24V/17.2kW Lithium Power of house Bank and 60AH LTO starter battery. The “2 years old” 4x140AH lead acid batteries from former owner going into bow (95mm2 cable from stern to bow already there) as 12V bowtruster/anchor whinch bank which also acts as dump load and backup house bank too.
Prepping the boat for my world circum the next 7-10years.
Wanna use all possible ways of generating electric power, first you can never have too much power and 2nd as things break it’s good to have as many backups as possible.
Power generation concept:
Having a ketch and a fixed pilot house 4x220W panasonic panels=880W of solar fits on roof and Reling, another 440W bi facial LG Solar panel on the davits/solar arch=> ordered and will be main source of power mainly at Anker and contribute while sailing too. contribute because 440W will be shaded and From experience the rest will maybe deliver 500W on a good day while sailing
Superwind wind gen is already installed as 2nd generating power source in windy places like Caribbean and works also during night and contributes a bit while sailing too.
Shaft gen will be 3rd power generating source and main while sailing.
4th source is Engine. That has a 12V/60A alternator now, will be Replaced with a 24V/80A and and an additional 24V/80A Heavy Duty alternator fitted.shaft gen will also act as 3 alternator and deliver power while motoring. Charging of 12 V LTO Starter and 12V bank with a 24V DC to 12V DC Sterling charger.
5th source is semi permanent installed 230V 2000W Honda suitcase with an external gasoline tank. Why:simply fits perfectly in an unused space close to shore power/inverter/charger location and an existing through hull could was used for the exhaust where no diesel one would fit. 2nd gasoline and very efficient,3rd cheap with good parts available worldwide and 4th reliable.

[Seafarer7]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Hi all,
Know it is an old thread but I want to bring it back to life...
I want to install a prop shaft generator with a 24V PMA and searching for sailors that actually have one or two on board.
Are they any new prop shaft installs with a PMA then Carl’s one?
.

I have two: they are both PMDC generators, not PMA, one each on each engine, coupled to a Morningstar MPPT charge controller. Both work great - I posted some actual performance figures earlier

[Seafarer7]

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=3032997

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Seafarer7

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=3032997

Awesome
Exactly what I was looking for. Awesome how you avoided to disassemble shaft. had the same idea but was not sure if that works and you proof it does.
My hull speed is 8kn and I have a 21x15 fixed prop, shaft starts turning from 1.5kn on. And was turning the last 36years without any problem, it’s a motor sailor that sails well and was designed like this from the beginning. A fellow with the same boat converted to a folding propeller and gained 0.25kn speed at most...I keep the fixed, invest in energy production and make use of the energy instead.

What happens if your battery is fully charged?
If the pulley is still turning and the MPPT stops charging without load it creates a spike that kills your MPPT.
How did you solve this?
Carl (See above) solved this with a clutch disengaging the pulley. Also if your drag is too big in eg light winds to stop energy production. Like that solution too and combine it with yours. Disengage the link belt wouldn’t be practical.
Was looking for a clutch but cannot find one. Wrote Carl a PM too but no answer so far.

[Jubilee39]

Permanent mag generator is basically a magneto used on old farm equipment. Voltage regulation was by dumping to a resistor. Have you thought about a small alternator, you are already looking at an external regulator and the alternator can be simply turned off so no load. Big pulley on shaft small pulley on alternator.

[CaptainRivet]

Also do you run the shaft gen while motoring or how do you solve that?

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Jubilee39

Permanent mag generator is basically a magneto used on old farm equipment. Voltage regulation was by dumping to a resistor. Have you thought about a small alternator, you are already looking at an external regulator and the alternator can be simply turned off so no load. Big pulley on shaft small pulley on alternator.

Bad idea: you need 5 amps for building up the magnetic field to create 5A of power on a alternator.
That means a PMA generates 10A output while an alternator generates 5A loss to generate only 5A output.

[RaymondR]

The catalyst for this is to replace the power needed to run a 1hp R/O unit under sail only, without running my big AC Gen which is mounted to the side and heels under sail.

Maybe you'd be better off belt driving a high pressure pump with an electric clutch of the prop shaft, cut out the middle man.