Only Solar

[Setia]

Gord & Del,
Got me good Gord, but I did suspect your submission was somewhat tongue in cheek. A good case in point is the Gun & anti gun lobbies. It would be very easy to become a paranoid anti pollution detective eg. all forms of electricity generation so far mentioned entail huge construction activity which in turn involves considerable use of nuclear sources such as caesium 137 for weld x-ray & soil density tests, when I think of the number of these sources sitting around in offices all over the world I begin to worry. Currently about 15 miles away there is a pilot plant for extracting petroleum products from oil shale, company is Southern Pacific Petroleum. They have successfully produced naptha in commercial quantities to the extreme anger of the greens & nearby residents due to very unpleasant emissions plus the greens see this as a method of prolonging the use & manufacture of fossil fuels. This is a vast deposit & if perfected this plant could considerably reduce our dependence on middle east oil. Your post highlights that the propaganda put out by both sides of the argument makes it extremely difficult to have an informed opinion. Anyhow the company is currently in receivership due to funding difficulties. Has this reached the media in your part of the world? If so, what do ya reckon? Regards, (still wearing my sunnies) Glen

[delmarrey]

A few years ago I heard about some groups extracting oil from shale, but don't remember where it was. It seems that they were saying that it wasn't very profitable.
As far as opinions, one has to just do open minded research with reputable organizations for the truth as we can best find it. I would like to know what ever happened to the old solar panels with the black tubing running before mirrors to produce heat generated energy. I know they are big, but in an empty desert they could produce some source of clean energy that doesn't pollute the environment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those greenies. I was raised on a farm by depression era parents that didn't waste anything and kept everything cleaned up to avoid disease.
Heck, when I got out of the Navy in 73 I spent a couple years rebuilding alternators, generators and starters for diesel trucks. After that I ran off to Alaska and was going to build a self sufficient home with a windmills and water solar panels. But after I got there it seemed like no one wanted me there. Everywhere I went they would ask me where I was from, what I wanted and how long I was going to stay. Not much of a welcoming party. Never the less, I worked dirt cheep to get enough money to get out of there.
Now that's what I like about sailing, if you don't like the environment, anchors away! Plus it's still being self sufficient and still being mobile.
One of my jobs here at work is hazardous waste management, so I guess that makes me a little touchy about pollution
Hopefully, someday, I'll be pulling into the ports of OZ to avoid the cyclones of the South Pacific. And hopefully, I'll receive a little better reception than I did in Alaska.
And did you hear about the Aussie today that drove to get help with a shark locked on to his leg.

........................................._/)

Del

[BC Mike]

Every where I go I get asked where am I from, cause I do not sound like anyone they know. That's what happens when you are from England and live in NZ, Hawaii and then Canada. Did you hear about the shark that came to a screaming Holt? We may get a reply from the land of Ozz. BC Mike C

[kcrompton]

Ok people are concerned about the by products and disposal of solar panels after their life cycle is over. My understanding is (with no professional backing or schooling in this area) that these materials are still useable and are not totaly destroyed they just need to be...... chemicaly reset or reproccessed, I guess you could say to make them work again. It is not done now because there are not enough solar panels out there and people that would turn them in to make recycling them profitable. Now this comes from what little college chemistry and physics I do have but I really don't KNOW for sure any of these thing I am saying. So if anyone can prove or disprove me and has the school and knowledge to back it up then I would stand corrected.

BTW I got a kick out of your post Gord I almost always like your posts.

Ken
Still saven.....Still dreamin

[sv_makai]

Makai has 480 watts of solar (4*120) w/powerproducts MPPT controller for the best effiecancy from the panels, 2 160 amp alt with the Jackrabbit 3 stage controller dedicated to the house bank, and a seperate portable gas genset for days we go crazy with the power consumption. We have seperate starting batteries with dedicated alt.

Since we live onbaord and spend long periods of time away from shore power and fuel docks we rely on the solar as the primary source. For the most part it meets our needs. The only time we need aux power is when we run the water maker all say when it is partly cloudy.

We don't like to run the engines just to charge. One it is hard on diesel to run lightly loaded and 2 it uses fuel. One the rare occasions that we need extra juice we use a 2 kW Honda to keep the batteries topped.

We are thinking of adding a SuperWind wind generator to round out the power generating capability. many cruisers we know actually dump power witha similar setup. The Carib has the trade winds and plenty of sunlight.

We try to live with some comforts and not like camping. So the word is more power! Bigger and better solar panels!

[Talbot]

For a while, on my 28ft boat I had a 100W solar panel that gave a lot of power, but it was too big.

Too big. My boat is only 29ft, and I have a 180w solar panel so what is the problem?

[Alan Wheeler]

There is nothing truely "Green" in our Man made world. Apart from a hole in the roof to let the light in
What ever we make, takes energy and resources to make it. Solar panels are no exception, but niether is a wind generator. It still has copper, steel, plastics, paint, composites, all have taken energy to produce, all have had wastes. (Did you know, in LA alone, 60Ton's of solvents from paint drying are released into the atmosphere each day).
To me, a Solar panel would be the closest to green. It has no chemicals that leach, such as a battery does. It is basically silicon and Carbon, with a few other smaller components thrown in. They have a reasonable life expectancy. And I could imagine if someone really thinks about it, many of its materials could be reused or recycled. But some has to want to.
Now what is it about recycling, that it is cheaper to make things from the raw materials, than recycle. I just don't get that.

[Jentine]

Kyocera claims that their solar panels retain 90% effectiveness for 25 years. If after each 25 year cycle the panel looses 10%, they will be worth keeping around for about a hundred years. At that time, I feel confident that someone will have devised a method to recycle them or recharge them with no negative effect on the environment.

Jim

p.s. I can't find enough space to mount enough solar panels. I will be restricted to 330 watts on my new boat. I was hoping for more.

[CSY Man]

http://cruisersforum.com/photopost//...t=1&thecat=500

150 amps of solar panels on a 33 ' sailobat...No problem

[sv_makai]

150 amps or 150 watts. A 150 amps would be a lot of panels?

[GordMay]

Even @ 10W/Sq. Ft. output*- a 2100 Watt (150A @ 14V nominal) solar array would require 21 square foot of exposed PV. I suspect Dag meant to say 150 Watts (still substantial @over 15 sq. ft. arrayed).

* I haven’t followed all the latest developments - but not long ago, ratings were mostly running between 5 and 10 Watts Output per Square Foot. Since Solar Irradiance = about 93 W/Ft2 (1000 W/m2), the current efficiency of PV’s is less 10% (compared to about 40% for an internal combustion engine). It seems, to me, that there might be some really good things in our solar future.

SOME RELATIVE EFFICIENCIES:
Model ~ Watts ~ Sq. Inches ~ Rated Efficiency *
BP 160/BP3160 ~ 160W ~ 1950" (13.54') ~ 8.21% efficiency
Sharp 165, NE-Q5E2U ~ 165W ~ 2017" ~ 8.18%
Sharp 185, NT-S5E1U ~ 185W ~ 2017" ~ 9.17% (13.2 Watts / Sq. Ft.)
Kyocera, KY167G ~ 167W ~1981" ~ 8.43%
Kyocera, KY158G ~ 158W ~ 1981" ~ 7.97%
Shell/Siemens SP-150 ~ 150W ~ 2044" ~ 7.34%

* Shading (up to 75% or even 95% loss factor), Orientation (true south), Tilt Angle, Temperature (11% loss), Dirt & Dust (2% loss), Wiring (2% loss), and High Load Resistance can all have drastic (> 30% loss factor) consequences on “actual” output.

[sv_makai]

I assumed he meant watts but had to clarify. Since sailing in the Caribe we have met several cats with large amounts of solar panels coming up to 100 amps +. We have also seen a few mono hual that are coming close to 100 amps plus.

Cats have acreage to lay out panels without getting in the way. Many leaners have started to hang stacks of panels from the life lines. A lot of amperage can be added.

[GordMay]

Cpt. Bil says “... Many leaners have started to hang stacks of panels from the life lines. A lot of [potential*] amperage can be added ...”
[* my addition]
Imprecise orientation (Azimuth - 180̊south, and Altitude/Elevation) will dramatically reduce the actual amperage output. On a boat, it’s almost impossible to track the Sun’s Altitude throughout the day, and very difficult to track the Azimuth.
I suppose that’s why solar-dependant cruisers need vast expanses of PV array.
FWIW
Gord

[sv_makai]

Agreed with the poteintial amp. We have seen some clever mounts that allow the panel to be turned to improve tracking. It adds work to maximize the solar input, but every amp counts.

Sailors can be very creative!!

[just kidding with the leaner comment, i used to be one too!]

[GordMay]

New Alliance Supports Commercialization of Photovoltaics
To make the future bright for solar power, photovoltaic manufacturers recently launched a new organization geared at helping the United States achieve an annual 1 gigawatt market for distributed solar electricity by 2010. The primary mission of the Americans for Solar Power-PV Manufacturers Alliance (ASPv-PVMA) is to establish sustainable mainstream markets for cost-effective distributed solar power. The group plans to conduct research and educate opinion leaders and the public about the benefits of solar electricity. In 2005, the alliance will focus on California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's Million Solar Roof's plan as well as regulatory initiatives in solar hot spots such as New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Texas, and Colorado. For more information, visit the ASPv-PVMA Web site: http://www.forsolar.org/


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