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Old 31-07-2020, 12:08   #76
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

Chotu, I have not read every post in this thread, but provided you have not already bought your ac's, you might want to read how this guy has a solar powered mini split on his truck camper that he is able to run 24/7 without the need for a generator.


https://youtu.be/OmOkQerIITk


If you are building a CAT you should have a lot of surface area for solar panels which today are cheaper and more efficient than they have ever been before.
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Old 31-07-2020, 12:55   #77
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Originally Posted by NaClyDog View Post
Are any of the soft start units not compatible with those types of air conditioners?
They are all compatible, they are usually meant to be for RV’s and someone got smart and marketed them to the marine market.
I just put one on my 16K Webasto which has a huge start up surge, When I had a needle amp meter the needle would slap the full scale every time it started, I put on a hard start cap which helped some, but not much. No way could the Honda start it even with ECO off and nothing else running, the Honda would overload and disconnect as soon as it hit.
This year I installed a soft start and now the Honda will start the AC and have other loads or not, and be in Eco mode, there is no sudden hit, Amps slowly increase as does the Honda’s RPM.

If you go with a soft start, be sure to get one with good customer support and one that is waterproof.
I went with this one
https://www.microair.net/products/ea...nt=30176048267
Wiring diagram didn’t match mine exactly so I called and was immediately connected with an Engineer named Dave, sent him a photo of my wiring diagram, called back the next day and Dave had already looked at it and quickly told me what to connect where. It’s also waterproof.

Did some research and found out that a soft start is kinder on a compressor and should extend their life, a hard start cap really kicks the compressor hard, the theory is to hit it with so much juice from a cap that it’s almost instantly up to running speed, this torque is hard on the compressor. Slowly ramping one up is apparently much easier on one.
Of course a good soft start will also have a delay, like 5 min or so between cycles so that the pressure has bled off and it’s not trying to start against a pressurized system, many AC’s have this anyway.
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Old 31-07-2020, 13:17   #78
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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They are all compatible, they are usually meant to be for RVís and someone got smart and marketed them to the marine market.
I just put one on my 16K Webasto which has a huge start up surge, When I had a needle amp meter the needle would slap the full scale every time it started, I put on a hard start cap which helped some, but not much. No way could the Honda start it even with ECO off and nothing else running, the Honda would overload and disconnect as soon as it hit.
This year I installed a soft start and now the Honda will start the AC and have other loads or not, and be in Eco mode, there is no sudden hit, Amps slowly increase as does the Hondaís RPM.
That pretty much confirms my thinking on starting capacity of an inverter generator. Even with a decent load already on the generator, my 6.5kw will start a 16K BTU A/C (complete with the full scale bounce on the ammeter) with barely a grunt from the generator. I'd expect any non-inverter gen with a big enough engine and enough rotating weight to perform similarly.
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Old 31-07-2020, 13:26   #79
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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That pretty much confirms my thinking on starting capacity of an inverter generator. Even with a decent load already on the generator, my 6.5kw will start a 16K BTU A/C (complete with the full scale bounce on the ammeter) with barely a grunt from the generator. I'd expect any non-inverter gen with a big enough engine and enough rotating weight to perform similarly.
My 3.5 KW Nexgen would easily start it before the soft start even with the other AC running and some battery charging, but the 3.5 KW Nexgen has the same 6 KW generator head their 5.5 KW does, and as it’s a single cylinder Diesel, it’s has God’s own flywheel damping out those power pulses from a single cylinder Diesel, so between the fact it’s a 6KW generator head and has a monster flywheel, you don’t even hear surges, but of course a flywheel adds nothing to constant state so the little generator is HP limited to 3.5 KW continuous.
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Old 31-07-2020, 13:30   #80
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

Of his list of three generators, there is really in my opinion only one suitable, the Onan I’m nearly certain is already in a weather proof sound shield, has a full pressure oil system with an oil filter, and the 5.5 runs at 2400 RPM, the 7K I believe turns higher RPM, and that may be the difference between the two.
The Onan will have a steady quiet purr that doesn’t change, the Honda will be ramping RPM up and down with varying loads, and that can get annoying.
The Onan is also a 90 degree V -Twin, and unlikely a Hardley, they are among the smoothest vibration free engine designs of all.

They Ryobi shouldn’t even be considered, it won’t last nearly as long and will be obnoxiously loud, probably have parts vibrating off of it from day one.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:36   #81
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Of his list of three generators, there is really in my opinion only one suitable, the Onan Iím nearly certain is already in a weather proof sound shield, has a full pressure oil system with an oil filter, and the 5.5 runs at 2400 RPM, the 7K I believe turns higher RPM, and that may be the difference between the two.
The Onan will have a steady quiet purr that doesnít change, the Honda will be ramping RPM up and down with varying loads, and that can get annoying.
The Onan is also a 90 degree V -Twin, and unlikely a Hardley, they are among the smoothest vibration free engine designs of all.

They Ryobi shouldnít even be considered, it wonít last nearly as long and will be obnoxiously loud, probably have parts vibrating off of it from day one.
This is probably a great analysis of the situation. The remote control panel and pre-built sound and weather enclosure actually justifies the $3000 price difference too. If I save all that time and materials on installation, it makes up for the price difference. At least for the first generator. Second time I have to buy one it gets more expensive.

The Onan is also quite a bit better looking than my own installation plans for the other generators. It has a nice fuel pump and good looking control panel for the interior.

Plus I already have a soft start I can put into one of the ACs. They also have a decent flywheel. Itís a lot of weight, but may be the right choice.


Itís got a lot going for it.
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:59   #82
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

It is a good bit of weight, but it's only 79 lbs heavier than the Ryobi and 27 lbs heavier than the Honda. By the time you're done enclosing, ducting, etc. the other units, that will likely eat up a good chunk of the weight difference.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:25   #83
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
It is a good bit of weight, but it's only 79 lbs heavier than the Ryobi and 27 lbs heavier than the Honda. By the time you're done enclosing, ducting, etc. the other units, that will likely eat up a good chunk of the weight difference.
Also good points.

Definitely leaning this way. It’s expensive though because it requires a $500 fuel pump and a remote control panel which I assume is a similar price.

However, it might be a “forever generator” that makes a good investment.

I can coat the wiring and metal parts to help them better resist corrosion.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:27   #84
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

It should be the longest lasting of the options. And it'll be the easiest to beef up for salt spray too, as it's already meant to get blasted with road salt and survive.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:11   #85
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

Greetings. I had an interesting coversation with a Park Ranger on generator noise.
The National Park Service standard is 60 dBA at 50 feet distance. A lot louder than a library...close to conversation level. We have two parks near us, a State and a Federal. What was interesting ? Noise complaints about running generators.
There is a huge volume of videos on RV generators including sound measurements. As most sailors know, sound on the water, sound with or opposing the wind, is not the volume which can be measured in a laboratory.
I firmly believe it is the right of sailors to enjoy a quiet harbor. I believe many sailors also believe in minimizing their carbon footprint.
Is a lengthy post on generators for air conditioning worthy of more discussion?
Is this what sailing has become? I want a high performance boat that has every convenience of home and I don’t care about my impact on fellow beings or the environment. So if I row over and ask you to shut it off ?
Please tell me how I can return my two gold stars to my kindergarten teacher.
Mark, still trying to follow the way of the manatee.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:13   #86
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
Greetings. I had an interesting coversation with a Park Ranger on generator noise.
The National Park Service standard is 60 dBA at 50 feet distance. A lot louder than a library...close to conversation level. We have two parks near us, a State and a Federal. What was interesting ? Noise complaints about running generators.
There is a huge volume of videos on RV generators including sound measurements. As most sailors know, sound on the water, sound with or opposing the wind, is not the volume which can be measured in a laboratory.
I firmly believe it is the right of sailors to enjoy a quiet harbor. I believe many sailors also believe in minimizing their carbon footprint.
Is a lengthy post on generators for air conditioning worthy of more discussion?
Is this what sailing has become? I want a high performance boat that has every convenience of home and I don’t care about my impact on fellow beings or the environment. So if I row over and ask you to shut it off ?
Please tell me how I can return my two gold stars to my kindergarten teacher.
Mark, still trying to follow the way of the manatee.


You can’t even row out to the locations I anchor in. You need a 9.9hp outboard to get out to the places I stay.

You stay in your “quiet” little shoreside harbors listening to dinghies, Harleys, sirens and traffic and partying noise while I’m outside the harbor as far as possible away from whining annoying people.

Where I anchor, there AREN’T any neighbor boats. For exactly this reason.

You’re the type of person that loves a home owners association and creating lots of new laws.

I have no need for you, so you won’t find me anywhere near your boat. Problem solved

What kind of expedition yacht do you have that it can’t anchor in remote places and needs to be all tucked up into a tiny, crowded harbor? And you row ashore from a 60’ expedition yacht??

PS: Gold stars are a measure of how helpful people have found your posts to be.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:48   #87
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

I think and may be mistaken, the the number of stars is simply the number of posts you have made. Not sure of that though, but it seems to track that way.
The OP has a point and it’s one that us generator types need to be aware of, and to take into account.
As silly as this sounds but I wish there was a generator flag that I could fly so that when new boats arrive they know.
I do my best to anchor out where there are no other boats, it’s one reason why to have a nice big fast dinghy, but it seems people must like to congregate together or something because once I anchor it seems others will anchor close to me.
But I won’t run my generator real early, or close to sunset, or at night, with very rare exceptions anyway.
I run one to make water and as a supplement to Solar, I either migrate with the seasons or lately have taken to a Marina in the hot / hurricane season.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:18   #88
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I think and may be mistaken, the the number of stars is simply the number of posts you have made. Not sure of that though, but it seems to track that way.
The OP has a point and it’s one that us generator types need to be aware of, and to take into account.
As silly as this sounds but I wish there was a generator flag that I could fly so that when new boats arrive they know.
I do my best to anchor out where there are no other boats, it’s one reason why to have a nice big fast dinghy, but it seems people must like to congregate together or something because once I anchor it seems others will anchor close to me.
But I won’t run my generator real early, or close to sunset, or at night, with very rare exceptions anyway.
I run one to make water and as a supplement to Solar, I either migrate with the seasons or lately have taken to a Marina in the hot / hurricane season.
Good post. I agree. A flag would be nice.

I do exactly as you do in all other respects.

However, I’m guessing people like the guy that keeps coming on here bashing generators will actively seek out anyone anywhere in his area running a generator just to hassle them.

You can tell by the behavior here. He is coming into a generator thread just to cause problems and hassle me. Not because he has any interest at all in generators. It’s because he wants to preach.

He finds some people discussing generators and latches on.

Probably does the same in Georgia. Heads out to remote anchorages or toured the harbor looking for places to insert himself.

The way you or I use our generators, no one knows we have one.

The other thing this guy doesn’t get (being from Georgia and probably still there) is I almost never need the generator. With 1400KW of solar and propane hot water, this generator is for HVAC only. Which you rarely need if you are able to snowbird it.

I’ve been in Maine all summer. No HVAC required. I’m in Florida all winter. No HVAC required. It’s needed a few odd days here and there when changing locations.

This guy is just picturing the wrong thing.

Probably pictures a tiny creek in Georgia, 110 degrees out and a Briggs and Stratton generator running 24 hours a day.

Now THAT would be an issue, sounding like a lawnmower all day and night.

I simply don’t go to places like that.

That’s why I have a boat. To leave that.

I have never ran a generator at night. Where I anchor (way out, usually outside harbors) it’s nice and cool at night with a breeze. Just open hatches and you’re good.

Which does get me thinking... $7000+ to install and then additional money run air conditioning could buy a lot of docks during heat waves.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:49   #89
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

Manatee man are you currently at Rockyís boat yard?
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:08   #90
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Re: Non-Marine Generator Choices?

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Which does get me thinking... $7000+ to install and then additional money run air conditioning could buy a lot of docks during heat waves.
Depends a lot on where you are, and what season it is.
A few years ago I went to Ft Lauderdale to get a custom mattress made, and called the City Marina about a day Dock, expecting a slip to be insanely expensive, to find out that slips in Downtown Ft Lauderdale out of “Season” were very inexpensive, so of course we got one, plugged in and ran the AC.

But money wise, for most a sailboat isn’t likely as frugal as we may think, not if well kept. I have I’d guess at least $30,000 in sails, rigging and chainplates etc. that would have bought a lot of fuel for a Trawler.
It’s really only those that actually cross Oceans that see any advantage in sailing, and even then I believe it’s more of a range / seaworthy issue than expense.

If I had to do it again, or said another way if I knew then what I know now, I would never have bought and installed my Diesel generator, I would have just used a Honda.
If you only need ocassional AC, A Honda will easily run an RV AC if it has a soft start. Honda weighs 47 lbs, and inexpensive covers are easy to get.
Our stays in the cockpit, and they are $1,000. It’s child’s play to connect one to an outboard fuel tank too. I connect ours to a 6 gl tank, and every few weeks, dump 5 gls into the tank from a 5 gl Jerry can.
So you could save the aggravation of an install, save thousands of dollars and hundreds of lbs of weight, and if you have to run both AC’s. Parallel two Honda’s together.
But I suspect maybe you could get by on one most times?
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