No big battery chargers?

[The Sun King]

Sounds like you've read the battery specs. That's good. A lot of agms are easily damaged by high charge rates and that's one reason I have nothing to do with them, even though they are more resistant to sulphation. Read the specs, y'all.


Is there a connection for a temp sensor on your Trace? My old 2524 has one. If so, you could probably find a temp sensor.


24v panels with an MPPT charge controller, if you go solar, will give you much cheaper panels for the money than 12v, as a rule. A friend, John Kimball, runs Sun Electronics, in Miami, and he tells me he thinks he has a line on dirt cheap 70 watt 12v panels. I get all of my panels and batteries from him because most dealers don't seem to understand that you don't pay tax on anything solar in Florida. Well, that, and I'm on a budget.


If you switch to flooded GC2s, just make sure you have good ventilation.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by The Sun King

A lot of agms are easily damaged by high charge rates and that's one reason I have nothing to do with them, even though they are more resistant to sulphation. Read the specs, y'all.

I thought it was the exact opposite when it comes to high charge acceptance for AGM's, but maybe different brands of AGMs differ. From the Lifeline manual:

"Due to the low impedance design, Lifeline® batteries can tolerate in-rush current levels as high as 5C (500A for a 100Ah battery)."

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Exile

I thought it was the exact opposite when it comes to high charge acceptance for AGM's, but maybe different brands of AGMs differ. From the Lifeline manual:



"Due to the low impedance design, Lifeline[emoji768] batteries can tolerate in-rush current levels as high as 5C (500A for a 100Ah battery)."

They are also much less resistant to sulphation if not fully charged.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

They are also much less resistant to sulphation if not fully charged.

That's right. Opposite of what was stated.

[Gerrycooper56]

We have the Xantrex SW3000 which has a 150a charger.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

They are also much less resistant to sulphation if not fully charged.

This statement is not entirely true!!! Viewers pick up these kind of one-liner comments and keep posting them on other threads - which just expands the myth.

AGMs sulphate just like any other Lead Acid battery as part of the normal chemical process of current discharge.

if they are not fully charged there may be long term permanent sulfation, because most AGMs - and sealed lead acid batteries - can't be equalised which will/can/may remove the sulfation. This only works with any open flooded Lead Acid battery if they haven't been left too long in a PSoC state which causes the Lead Sulfate crystals to harden.

Only sealed Lifeline AGMs can be equalised, and indeed the manufacturer recommends this if you have not fully 100% charged them regularly.

But how many people ever equalise their open FLA batteries to prolong their life and therefore make them 'more resistant to sulfation'?

Sealed batteries that can't be equalised should not be used on a cruising boat.

For the first few years with my Lifeline AGMs I knew nothing about partial state of charge problems and yet they have lasted me 14 years.

[a64pilot]

OK I’ll rephrase that. According to one of the Godfrey’s whom I have talked to and one of the chief engineers that I have talked to at trade shows, both the Lifeline and Concorde battery are more prone to sulphation that a flooded battery, but theirs is the only AGM battery that can be equalized, which depending on severity of sulphation and length of time, can be partially reversed.

I’m terrible with names or I’d name drop, just can’t remember the names.

The Concorde battery they heavily recommend it being kept on a battery tender when not in use, the Lifeline to be floated, to prevent sulphation.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by jr_spyder

My fridge and freezer are keel cooled models with evaporation plates, not cold plates. When running, each one draws about 4 amps. Of course they cycle on/off 24/7 so I don't really know their daily consumption. But when the genset is running the max load it could be feeding to refrigeration is 8 amps. I only run my watermaker every few days and only when the genset is running. Like yours it's 12 vdc. It draws about 18 amps (to make 16 gal/hr). An interesting idea here would be to only turn on the water maker after the bank goes into absorption phase. The charger should have extra capacity then and there would be no decrease in absorption charging time. That might mean running the water maker more frequently but for less time, which might be a good thing.

This is what I finally think is the best mode, after lots of operation and evaluation. Start generator with reefer and watermaker off, run 100A charge to all batteries then when current decreases to about 70A I turn on reefer and watermaker as needed. Reefer has fancy controller but I optimize by forcing it manually off or on.

I bought a separate 50A 13.6V power supply with idea of using it to run reefer separately. But apparently the reefer startup current is so high it just trips the supply off.

Someday maybe get real into it and get wireless sensors and switches on all of this, write computer program to make all the decisions!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

.................

But how many people ever equalise their open FLA batteries to prolong their life ............................

Is this a trick question? Do I need to guess a BIG number?


I do.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Is this a trick question? Do I need to guess a BIG number?


I do.

Me too

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Is this a trick question? Do I need to guess a BIG number?

Ok - two replies so far.

I gave a lecture to the UK Cruising Association - a load of old long time sailors - and only 2 out of the 75 there had ever equalised their batteries.

I was just asking a general question here.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The Concorde battery they heavily recommend it being kept on a battery tender when not in use, the Lifeline to be floated, to prevent sulphation.

I don't doubt this, but it also goes against one of the advertised benefits of AGMs, namely a lower self-discharge rate than FLAs. If I'm significantly reducing the life expectancy of my Lifeline's by, for example, not having a charge on them over winter lay-up (on the hard), then that's really another negative for AGMs. I do, of course, condition/equalize them in the Spring and periodically thereafter.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...According to one of the Godfrey’s whom I have talked to and one of the chief engineers that I have talked to at trade shows, both the Lifeline and Concorde battery are more prone to sulphation than a flooded battery....

It's good to get feedback from the horses mouth, but it's difficult to understand exactly what they mean by that. I have emailed them directly about how long they can stay in a PSoC state before equalisation fails to cure this. Is it two days, two weeks, or somewhere in between. I never got an answer.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

Ok - two replies so far.



I gave a lecture to the UK Cruising Association - a load of old long time sailors - and only 2 out of the 75 there had ever equalised their batteries.



I was just asking a general question here.

From my just talking to people, I think that is a pretty good number, almost without most exception have never even heard of equalizing, and when you start telling them how to maintain a bank, they get to looking at you like your crazy, and this after they asked for help.

I wish I had a quarter for every time I heard people asking who had a battery tester on the radio at Georgetown, they couldn’t figure out why their electric stuff didn’t work right, they ran their engine for an hour every afternoon, and of course had stock alternators that were internally regulated, they all had some Solar or most did, but not much.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

It's good to get feedback from the horses mouth, but it's difficult to understand exactly what they mean by that. I have emailed them directly about how long they can stay in a PSoC state before equalisation fails to cure this. Is it two day, two weeks, or somewhere in between. I never got an answer.

Too many variables, every thing from how old are they, to battery temp., to how deeply discharged, heck even define what damage means.

For example if yours are 14 years old, I can assure you that almost certainly they met the definition of dead likely years ago.

The old Engineer that I believe pretty much did most of the design work of the batteries is old now and best to not call him, he doesn’t hear well, best to send him an Email.
I just can’t come up with his name, and he may be retired now anyway.

I kept trying unsuccessfully to get their Concorde battery in the aircraft we manufactured, but the owner wouldn’t pay for it, so it never happened.