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Old 31-07-2020, 08:08   #91
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

If you go the lithium route buy dc to dc chargers for your laptops. Much ire efficient than going theough an inverter
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Old 31-07-2020, 08:47   #92
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

It really depends on your energy needs. The easiest thing to do is complete an energy audit. It costs nothing but a few hours of time onboard.

If you can operate with batteries you are far better off IMHO. The technology will only get better while generators are of the past. Batteries require virtually no maintenance and you know about the maintenance required with generators. In addition, there are many things on boats that have become much more energy-efficient. Watermakers that use 28amph, A/C units that are far more energy-efficient, LED lights. Induction cooking maybe in the wave of the future eliminating Propane tanks.

I'm a huge fan of the new batteries. They can be taken down to 30% (40% is better) without losing output. They weigh 25% less. With the increase in efficiency in solar panels and with the drop cost, it seems like the better way to go.
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Old 31-07-2020, 09:01   #93
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

It really depends on your energy needs. The easiest thing to do is complete an energy audit. It costs nothing but a few hours of time onboard.

If you can operate with batteries you are far better off IMHO. The technology will only get better while generators are of the past. Batteries require virtually no maintenance and you know about the maintenance required with generators. In addition, there are many things on boats that have become much more energy-efficient. Watermakers that use 28amph, A/C units that are far more energy-efficient, LED lights. Induction cooking maybe in the wave of the future eliminating Propane tanks.

I'm a huge fan of the new batteries. They can be taken down to 30% (40% is better) without losing output. They weigh 25% less. With the increase in efficiency in solar panels and with the drop cost, it seems like the better way to go.
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Old 31-07-2020, 09:15   #94
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Increasing your bank with LFP is a good choice at any case, especially as you need to replace the old batteries at any case. You can probably get 3x useable energy storage at the same battery space. You will need to add ac/ac charger from your cranking battery that may stay as AGM, so that the LFP bank can also safely be charged by the alternator.

If you visit the marina only every two weeks you definitely want solar and maximize the space possible; over cockpit, aft arch, side and folding up with high efficiency panels technology and a good MPPT controller to max the output.

After that you may determine if you still need a generator and which one; a 2Kw portable Honda/Yamaha or a new diesel. It is very much a matter of your comfort preferences. Personally and being a little spoiled, I would probably still want a diesel genset if staying offshore for two or more weeks but I really hope the first two upgrades will be good enough for you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
You make a good point about generation capacity being a separate issue. I would like to have more solar but space is an issue for us. I'm hoping that 300 watts solar, plus wind gen and 100 amp alternator running the engine at least 30 minutes per day (or more if we're moving around) will be enough to compensate for not having a generator. We probably average one marina night every two weeks. When we had the generator we didn't run it very much because it was unpleasantly noisy - maybe 30 minutes per day on average.

One advantage of lithium is that it's quicker to top them up so I'm hoping we won't have to run our engine for quite so long. So the type of battery storage has some relevance to power generation.
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Old 31-07-2020, 09:51   #95
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Well changing batteries etc is an option with all of the charging issues mentioned. The Farymann generators are still made today and so I am sure parts are available. First off I would contact the company Farymann North America, 1016 W Church St
Orlando, FL 32805-2216, Phone: 864-627-8143, Fax: 864-627-8144
Email: info@farymann.com
You may have a blown head gasket, or need a valve grind. Recently I imported a head from England and gaskets from Denmark for a 40 year old Buhk (to the USA) and the procedure was painless. If you liked the in house generator and the unlimited charging then I would repair. Send them an email of call and see what they have to say.
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Old 31-07-2020, 12:30   #96
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

DON'T charge expensive batteries from an alternator with built-in regulator. An alternator is relatively easy to modify and fit a "smart" regulator which will make the best of the batteries. Ditto, charge controller on PV and eggbeater.
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Old 31-07-2020, 12:46   #97
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Has anyone considered this: https://integrelsolutions.com/

It seems to address exactly what is being requested - avoid a generator with an electric solution.
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Old 31-07-2020, 15:05   #98
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Have covered over 50k since installing 400AH of Winston lithium batteries in 2014. Weight 75kilo, bought from "Basicly Natural" in N Queensland.
No BMS! Use a cell logger, automatic balancer and battery monitor. Each charge system is Lithium aware , Victron controllers on solar panels, Xantrex external regulator on alternator etc, and a load controller. In specifying your system, suggest allow for electricty use increasing over the years.
Get good panels! We had to replace our original 2 x 200watt panels in 2018, and now regret not making the time to sourcing the same type as we started with.
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Old 31-07-2020, 16:05   #99
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

I just finished my Lifepo4 installation one month ago. It is amazing. With 560 watts of solar, the system maintains itself.
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Old 31-07-2020, 16:33   #100
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Something that should be considered when people quote these numbers of high draw devices, and thatís the fact that 1000W draw pulls significantly more than 10 times out of a bank than a 100 W draw.
Itís Perkuit. If you pull a low draw out of a 100 AH bank, itís likely you can get more than 100 AH, but hit it with a big load and y9u wonít get near 100 AH.
Plus of course even 5 AH, is 5 AH, and thatís not a small number when you go adding 5 here and there together.
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Old 31-07-2020, 16:38   #101
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkahn1961 View Post
Has anyone considered this: https://integrelsolutions.com/

It seems to address exactly what is being requested - avoid a generator with an electric solution.

First price one, then consider that your most likely seriously overloading the engine. Most engines are not designed to have much power drawn from the front of the crankshaft, a few are, Backhoes for example, but most are not.

Most Yanmar’s at half max RPM have a 4 HP max allowable draw off the front of the Crankshaft, 4 HP equals 100 amps, that increases to 8 HP at redline, so if you don’t mind running your engine at redline, you can draw 200 amps off of the crankshaft and stay within published manufacturers limits for Yanmar.
I have no idea about all Yanmar’s limits of course, it’s likely some engines can allow much more than that.

Then lastly just think about how many hours your putting on your very expensive propulsion engine.
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Old 31-07-2020, 17:02   #102
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
You make a good point about generation capacity being a separate issue. I would like to have more solar but space is an issue for us. I'm hoping that 300 watts solar, plus wind gen and 100 amp alternator running the engine at least 30 minutes per day (or more if we're moving around) will be enough to compensate for not having a generator. We probably average one marina night every two weeks. When we had the generator we didn't run it very much because it was unpleasantly noisy - maybe 30 minutes per day on average.

One advantage of lithium is that it's quicker to top them up so I'm hoping we won't have to run our engine for quite so long. So the type of battery storage has some relevance to power generation.
I went through the same consideration - small "nightime" genset to run rather than our 20 kw set or go Lithium. Ultimately chose lithium, and now run the big genset for a couple of hours a day to fully recharge a 600 Ah lithium bank rather than 6 hours with the replaced AGM bank. The key to taking advantage of lithium, IMO, is that you have sufficient charging capacity to take advantage of their charge profile. For us, no problem. What you have available for charging is virtually captured 100% by the bank. Happy with our choice.
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Old 31-07-2020, 17:26   #103
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Try telling Elon Musk from Tesla Lithium battery is new untested technology.
Lead acid is cave man technology do your research.
It is such proven and used technology ie you mobile phone laptops etc for the small stuff electric vehicles big battery banks providing additional power to States for general consumer consumption.
Australia is building solar farms with Lithium batteryís to send HVDC to Singapore.
Go Lithium it is not so scary because our power draws are so small.
My first Cat 10 years ago was all Lithium when everyone was saying it would blow but! Seriously!
I am still sailing the Cat is still sailing no problems.
Just do your own research and learn.
Solar wind and a Honda should do you just fine. All into a hybrid inverter.
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Old 31-07-2020, 17:26   #104
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

Needs saying again, if your talking heating water and even light cooking, it’s not about the batteries.
Yes they can be a limiting factor. But what it’s really about is generating the power to store in the batteries.
So you can go the large bank, and real large Solar array, or you can stay with a modest bank and current Solar and run a generator to heat water and do that light cooking and not need a BIG bank to store power, because your not storing it.

Of course maybe a better approach is to heat water with Diesel or Propane and also cook with Propane or Diesel.

So far as these energy budgets, I think they are cute really, but actual measurement trumps calculations.
So borrow or rent a Honda, but only use it to charge the bank and live for a week and measure the actual amount of power you use, then you’ll know. Solar messes with that method though because during times of Solar output, you’ll use Solar directly and your amp counting meter won’t see the amps, same when the generator is running charging the bank.

So you go off of overnight use, we use 150AH from the time Solar isn’t producing until the time it is. My Kilowatt of Solar will make roughly 300ish AH in an average day, so most days we put back about as much as we take out, pretty much break even.
I have huge refrigeration 7 cu ft of fridge and 7 cu ft of Freezer and an Engel we use as a deep freeze, so we use a lot of power, but we don’t try to cook or heat any water.

To heat our 11 gl water heater if memory serves it takes an hour until it cuts itself off, and it draws 1200 Watts I believe, so ignoring Perkeut or any other inefficiencies it would take another 100 AH to heat 11 gls of water.
So cut that in half 6 gls, then say I don’t want HOT water, warm is good enough, but I bet it’s still 30 or so AH, and that’s not chump change. That’s 1/3 of your 300W Solars output and we haven’t heated water in the pot yet.

Procure a generator just to have one in case, if you don’t need it, sell it. They aren’t hard at all to sell, because many find out once they aren’t motoring every other day, that they can’t get by without one or running their motor for a couple of hours a day.
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Old 31-07-2020, 19:18   #105
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Re: New Generator or Lithium?

We replaced our 540 ah AGM house batteries with a 300 ah lithium system and have never looked back. The usable power from AGM (FLA) batteries is much less than from the equivalent lithium ah battery. The lithium batteries charge a bit quicker than the AGM but the real advantage is that you have constant volts of 13 plus with no slow reduction in voltage as you use them and you can safely discharge then to about 28%. I used to worry when my AGM got down to 75%.

So bottom line, if your current house batteries have enough ahs, then you don't need more ah in lithium. You can almost half the ah you need.
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