Loud multiplus, poor DragonFly/Victron customer support

[chris95040]

Hello folks!

I have a Victron multiplus compact 12V/2000 that makes an insane amount of noise (70dB SPL a few feet away) when operating with a modest load - inverting to feed a 700 watt heater, or supplying about 500 watts of charge power to the batteries.

I took a video showing the noise level to the retailer (dragonfly energy) and they had me jump through some hoops - disconnecting shore power, photographing electrical connections, etc, and they elected to send it back to Victron.

A month after sending the unit back to Victron I started asking Dragonfly for an update. Never heard back from them, and finally weeks later the unit showed up at my house with a note from Victron that they were "unable to replicate my complaint" (despite having video that clearly demonstrates the problem!!!)

I am so upset - now I have a $1000 inverter that sounds like it's going to explode while under a modest load and I don't seem to have any recourse.

I keep seeing youtuber's full of Victron gear and got the impression they were some awesome outfit to work with, but my experience with them is 1, my Orion gets absurdly hot (should have read the reviews) and 2, my Multiplus sounds like it's going to get somebody killed, and 3, victron does not want to spend a minute of their time on me. Lame!

What a disappointment.

Anyone else notice that these things are exceptionally loud? The sound seems to come from the giant torroid. Curious if anyone has been in this situation and found a workaround other than not asking it to do much.

[rslifkin]

I have the same Multiplus (the aluminum case 12/2000/80). It does make a bit of humming noise under some loads. Mine is mounted in an area below the cabin floor, but against a bulkhead, so some noise transfers through the bulkhead. I can't say it's particularly loud or that it's ever bothered or concerned me though. I've never been right in front of it with it under a significant load though, so I'm not sure how much noise it might be making that's blocked by the compartment it's mounted in.

[chris95040]

If you happen to be at your boat some time and don't mind doing a little test, put it under some load and take a listen.

Mine sounds louder than my giant radial arm saw stalling in a piece of wood, I'd be surprised if thats how it's supposed to sound.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by chris95040

If you happen to be at your boat some time and don't mind doing a little test, put it under some load and take a listen.

Mine sounds louder than my giant radial arm saw stalling in a piece of wood, I'd be surprised if thats how it's supposed to sound.

I know mine is definitely nowhere near that loud!

[s/v Jedi]

When Victron returns it with the “can not reproduce” note, it means that they installed it on their test bench and the unit performed as designed.

This doesn’t mean that it wasn’t loud in your installation; it means something is wrong with your installation rather than with the unit. This means the problem must be fixed by the installer.

It isn’t just the mounting position, orientation etc. The problem can be caused by wiring or a number of electrical issues, all of which must be known to the installer.

The Orion appears hot because the housing is used as the heat sink. The big advantage is that it can be a hermetically sealed, passively cooled unit that prevents countless issues. All you need to do is follow installation instructions (non flammable surface, correct orientation) and everything will be fine.
That said, the new model they have has an unmatched efficiency which translates into much less heat generation. We’re anxiously waiting for more new models that are rumored to be multi-voltage for inputs as well as outputs

[chris in SG]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Hello folks!
I have a Victron multiplus compact 12V/2000 that makes an insane amount of noise (70dB SPL a few feet away) when operating with a modest load - inverting to feed a 700 watt heater, or supplying about 500 watts of charge power to the batteries.

I have the same unit and I had noise issues when it was still quite new. I doubt this is your problem (unfortunately) but in my case the mini 'computer' fan had warped or destroyed its bearings and was intolerably noisy when the fan activated, which is not all the time. Changing the fan was a simple DIY fix.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

When Victron returns it with the “can not reproduce” note, it means that they installed it on their test bench and the unit performed as designed.

This doesn’t mean that it wasn’t loud in your installation; it means something is wrong with your installation rather than with the unit. This means the problem must be fixed by the installer...

Indeed.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

When Victron returns it with the “can not reproduce” note, it means that they installed it on their test bench and the unit performed as designed.

This doesn’t mean that it wasn’t loud in your installation; it means something is wrong with your installation rather than with the unit. This means the problem must be fixed by the installer.

It isn’t just the mounting position, orientation etc. The problem can be caused by wiring or a number of electrical issues, all of which must be known to the installer.

That's a reasonable supposition, I agree.

I don't want to go too deep down this rathole but I'm careful, thorough, and have spent my career of several decades as an electrical engineer living and breathing far more complicated systems. I whittled the installation down to almost nothing (To test charging, it was down to just 120V in, 12V out. To test inverting, it was down to just 120V out, 12V in. All properly sized conductors with hydraulic crimped terminals on those big 12V runs.) and the problem still exists any time there's a lot of power running through it.

I feel the likelihood of this being a problem with my "installation" is incredibly low, there is no complexity for such a problem to hide behind except inside that box.

[chris95040]

Also, along with nothing in the installation except a 120V source or load, and a 12V source or load, I

- switched my 120V input from the marina's power to my own genny

- switched from my battleborn bank to a single large lead acid.

I was devout in removing any complexity from these setups - just fresh wires with proper terminals properly prepared.

The fact of the matter is that under load that large toroid in the multiplus buzzes with an insane amount of noise: 70dB SPL at a few feet away.

Anyone got any ideas for other things to try?

Edit with some more details: For a 120V load I've used a 700 watt heat gun and then switched to a 500 watt heater. It is possible these items are inducing a funny load depending on how they arrive at their power consumption (purely resistive or is there a half-wave rectifier involved as is common on adjustable-power cheapo devices, although neither of those devices have a power adjustment, they are simply on/off) and I held out hope that this was the problem - until I found that _charging_ the battery bank makes the same noise.

[rslifkin]

Out of curiosity, have you tried running the Multiplus with it laying on its back rather than mounted upright? If that makes a difference, I wonder if something is just slightly loose and amplifying the normal transformer noise / vibration as a result.

[CharlieJ]

@chris95040
I know from experience that a mid-priced heat gun only uses one half of the incoming sine wave and made a 5kW Quattro sound like it was coming apart. It is possible that the heater you used also only utilizes one half of the sine wave.

Can you duplicate the 600W heater load with some other equipment to see if the noise recurs?

Victron is aware.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Also, along with nothing in the installation except a 120V source or load, and a 12V source or load, I

- switched my 120V input from the marina's power to my own genny

- switched from my battleborn bank to a single large lead acid.

I was devout in removing any complexity from these setups - just fresh wires with proper terminals properly prepared.

The fact of the matter is that under load that large toroid in the multiplus buzzes with an insane amount of noise: 70dB SPL at a few feet away.

Anyone got any ideas for other things to try?

For a 120V load I've used a heat gun and then switched to a 700 watt heating element. It is possible these items are inducing a funny load depending on how they arrive at their power consumption (purely resistive or is there a half-wave rectifier involved as is common on adjustable-power cheapo devices) and I held out hope that this was the problem - until I found that _charging_ the battery bank makes the same noise.

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Out of curiosity, have you tried running the Multiplus with it laying on its back rather than mounted upright? If that makes a difference, I wonder if something is just slightly loose and amplifying the normal transformer noise / vibration as a result.

Exactly, or holding it up in your hands without it touching any part of the boat (don’t electrocute yourself…)

Also, I think some of your comparisons are wrong. You say the noise level is 70dB but also louder than a circular saw. However, a circular saw is often in excess of 110dB which is an extreme difference. 70dB is equivalent to the noise level in an office environment or inside a car driving at 60 mph.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Exactly, or holding it up in your hands without it touching any part of the boat (don’t electrocute yourself…)

Also, I think some of your comparisons are wrong. You say the noise level is 70dB but also louder than a circular saw. However, a circular saw is often in excess of 110dB which is an extreme difference. 70dB is equivalent to the noise level in an office environment or inside a car driving at 60 mph.

Well, OK, my off-the-cuff description of what the noise felt like was a little out of calibration, you got me there. Of course, perception of acoustic energy is a complex topic and changes significantly based on context - I suppose expecting my inverter to be reasonably quiet and finding it this loud made the stalled saw motor comparison feel about right. Additionally, the sound of a stalled saw motor and a saw sawing are two different things.

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Out of curiosity, have you tried running the Multiplus with it laying on its back rather than mounted upright? If that makes a difference, I wonder if something is just slightly loose and amplifying the normal transformer noise / vibration as a result.

Another great suggestion - thanks! But damnit - I have done this test with it laying on it's back on a v-berth cushion, with it securely mounted vertically on its 1.5" thick bulkhead, and holding it in my arms like the delicate little baby it is. Noise unchanged, whether charging or inverting.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

@chris95040
I know from experience that a mid-priced heat gun only uses one half of the incoming sine wave and made a 5kW Quattro sound like it was coming apart. It is possible that the heater you used also only utilizes one half of the sine wave.

Can you duplicate the 600W heater load with some other equipment to see if the noise recurs?

Victron is aware.

Thanks for this note - That's definitely worth doing.

It still won't explain why the unit makes so much noise when there is zero inverter load and it is simply charging the batteries, though.

Which begs the question - what WOULD explain it? I suspect a manufacturing problem in the toroid.

[donradcliffe]

70 b is the level of quite loud talking. Are you hearing a fan noise, or vibration in the tororid? My guess is that you have a bum unit, and they didn't even check it when it was returned.