Location of inverter (close to the battery)

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I installed a new magnum charger inverter this winter next to batteries which makes cabling safer and easier. But then also had an airtight vented battery box made to isolate the inverter from the batteries. That’s even though my batteries are lifeline AGMs

How do you set up something that is both air tight and ventilated?

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

How do you set up something that is both air tight and ventilated?

He said vented not ventilated there’s a difference

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Would Xantrex Xpower 1500 Inverter Gfci count?

It's not a pure sine wave inverter so it may not work with what you want it to work with.

Heart/Xantrex are now made in China and have a pretty poor reputation.

My marine supplier carries Xantrex and 4 or 5 other brands. He recommended Samlex and I'm very happy with it.

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

He said vented not ventilated there’s a difference

Fair enough but question still stands. I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand the right way to do this since the requirements seem to be conflicting/contradicting.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Fair enough but question still stands. I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand the right way to do this since the requirements seem to be conflicting/contradicting.

Most Battery boxes are supposed to be vented, not sealed, to allow hydrogen to escape. Ventilation (say, with a fan) is not usually required, and sealed batteries supposedly do not need to be vented since hydrogen cannot escape anyhow.

But the inverter can make a lot of heat and needs good ventilation (circulation of air) not just a vent for gasses to escape. Inverters have built in fans and you will hear the fan in operation quite often, meaning it is getting hot. So put it somewhere where outside air can get to it.

I have a Magnum MMS pure sine wave inverter, it is slightly larger than a shoebox, and has given me good performance. It can be controlled remotely.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

The risk is there for all lead acid batteries, I think. Lower for AGMs and gels which are valve-regulated, but they can still vent. Not sure how it works with "sealed" automotive batteries, but given there's risk of explosion if not somehow vented, I expect they can off-gas too.

-Chris

Actually SLA batteries have a vent... so the name "sealed" is a bit of a misnomer. VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid battery) is actually a name for the same tech.

Here's a snippet from an APC white paper on the issue:

Valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries [...] do not require special battery rooms and are suitable for use in an office environment. Air changes designed for human occupancy normally exceed the requirements for VRLA [...] ventilation. Vented (flooded) batteries, which release hydrogen gas continuously, require a dedicated battery room with ventilation separate from the rest of the building.

And bit later in the paper the difference in gas output is quantified as 60 times less for VRLA:

VRLA batteries are considered to be “sealed” because they normally do not allow for the addition or loss of liquid. A vented battery can give off sixty times more gas than a VRLA battery in normal use.

And the reason for this is that in a "sealed"/VRLA battery:

hydrogen recombines under pressure with oxygen into water inside the battery. Gas can only escape when internal pressure exceeds the rating of the pressure valve.

cheers,

[tbeargladd]

I have never heard of these batteries and would like to find more information about them. So where do a person find this kind of battery or information regarding this battery. I too have a cheap harbor freight inverter in with my batteries, I used to have a Kisae 400watt and blew 5 of them either by running my engine or the inverter being powered up and starting the Honda 2000ia generator. Their are two holes in the back bulkhead of the incased battery bank so a little of the fumes can exhaust through the holes, would like to put a computer like fan with a switch to turn on and off, on the outside of the battery bank so to help exhaust the fumes out. So far no problems.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by tbeargladd

I have never heard of these batteries and would like to find more information about them. So where do a person find this kind of battery or information regarding this battery. I too have a cheap harbor freight inverter in with my batteries, I used to have a Kisae 400watt and blew 5 of them either by running my engine or the inverter being powered up and starting the Honda 2000ia generator. Their are two holes in the back bulkhead of the incased battery bank so a little of the fumes can exhaust through the holes, would like to put a computer like fan with a switch to turn on and off, on the outside of the battery bank so to help exhaust the fumes out. So far no problems.

sealed lead acid (VRLA) is what 90% of cars and trucks use. just go to your local automotive battery supply shop

we have 6 x 120amp of these. cheap and work fine so long as you don't deep discharge too often. don't last as long as some of the more exotic batteries, but better value for money imho.

you can also source a replacement easily if you have to...any island mechanic will have one. try doing that with lithium or such !

cheers,

[svlamorocha]

All "sealed" lead acid batteries have a vent. Try equalizing them at 15.5V and you will see vent at work.

Originally Posted by Chotu

Really good point regarding anything that’s not an open lead/acid battery.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Fair enough but question still stands. I am not being sarcastic. I am trying to understand the right way to do this since the requirements seem to be conflicting/contradicting.

Ok sorry not specific enough. Airtight to the compartment which has batteries and inverter. Vented out of that compartment via hose to outside (top of anchor locker). Intake hose comes from bilge.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

I have been trying to install an inverter. Space and/or cabling has been an issue. I finally got a standard (non-marine) inverter and it actually can fit very nicely next to one of the two batteries I have . I have read that inverters should not be in the same compartment with batteries. What is the reason for that? Would an installation like the one in the photo work? If not, what would be the problems? In particular, safety.

FWIW, if this is a go, I plan to return this and buy one from Energizer (similar size) that has a remote so I only turn it on for short durations when I need it. In any case, it will be rarely used, I just need a high wattage inverter when I need one.

Any insight will be appreciated.

You don't have to be that concerned regarding location. Ours is a 3kVA inverter and is located in one of the aft cabins (inside a storage area with a vent). Cabling run would be 4 metres or so. Yes it is thick cable, but you only run it once. The remote is located at the nav area, along with all of the controls, and it is full integrated into the wiring system. Handy to run the microwave, vacuum cleaner etc.
Do it right - do it once.

[mcon12000]

1. Mount it in a nearby compartment away from the batteries.
2. Consult the owners manual on max current draw and size the wiring with an ampacity chart like the one on Blue Seas website.
3. Fuse the Red wire feeding the inverter at the battery or source with the appropriate fuse for the “wire” being used. The idea is the wire doesn’t chafe and short causing a fire.
4. Use marine wire and tinned connectors. Anything else will corrode cause resistance and eventually fail.
5. Install and inline switch on the positive lead to the inverter so when working on the boats AC system you can be assured it’s inactive. Most inverters have a power save mode where they wait for a load to start inverting. So if you check the circuit with a meter it will show it’s not live but touch it and it’s a whole different story.

Follow the code and do it once the right way. Also most places will sell you the minimum awg wire if you ask them to size it for you. Just use the manufacture specs and an ampacity chart don’t rely on an online inverter store to make that decision.

[sailingharry]

So this raises the question. For "quality" inverters (not no-name eBay versions), how do you know what is a "marine" unit, and what are the specific differences between their marine and non-marine versions? Do we just "trust" that Xantrex adds a conformal coating? Do we even trust that Xantrex isn't just a re-branded eBay unit.....


I don't mind paying for "marine" products. I do mind paying for the same product labeled "marine" -- like a Kidde fire extinguisher at West and Home Depot with the same model number and a different box.

[bcboomer]

I understand your concern about something being truly marine.
The easiest way for me to choose was to go to a marine store and talk to someone whom I trust. He advised the Samlex brand based on the fact that it is Canadian designed and, after selling them for a number of years, he has never had a complaint or warranty claim. Conversely, another well known brand has had many problems over the same time span and they have been very unhelpful with failures.

[CarlF]

As someone else noted, inverters need a lot of airflow to manage heat. Most have fans.

Batteries on a recreational boat give off very little gas. Otherwise you couldn’t put them under berths where people sleep.

Anyplace there’s enough ventilation for the inverter to stay cool has plenty of ventilation to make hydrogen gas building up a non-issue.