Lead Crystal Batteries in Australia

[john61ct]

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[Alberto]

Originally Posted by LouisAndNatasha

I’m starting this thread on these batteries ...

I’d like to provide a counterargument, as my experience with Lead Crystal (in the US) has been quite different than yours, battery performance has been excellent, and technical support/customer service top-notch.

Like you, I use the EV series (light traction), as the batteries feed my sailboat's electric propulsion system. I was informed from the very beginning about charge requirements, and decided to go with two 48V banks, each using four 12V 115 Ah batteries instead of one bank of double the capacity, because of this. There are no viable onboard chargers for a 48V 230 Ah bank (i.e. 48V 50+A), but I could find a charger capable of 48V 30A, which is more than the minimum requirement of 0.2C @ C10 for the 110 Ah EV series (more on this later).

Tech support explained to me Lead Crystal batteries could be charged with any 3-4 step AGM charger. However, if the charger capacity is low, over time performance and capacity will be reduced. This is from Lead Crystal Technical Bulletin 2018/001, where they acknowledge “…
with the introduction of Betta Batteries Lead Crystal Batteries into the market some customers and resellers HAVE NOT fully understood the charging requirements of our batteries.” and provide instructions to rectify any loss, it can be found here: Lead Crystal Battery Charger Bulletin 2018

So far, my experience has been well above expectations. Motoring range has improved tremendously (more than tripled compared to my previous configuration of 72V/105 Ah using deep cycle AGMs). Charging time is extremely fast, batteries barely warm up during charging even with 30A. If in need to push them hard, they keep going, and going, the solenoid will disconnect due to low voltage while the batteries will still provide plenty of juice, and there is no irreversible damage if completely draining them (even to 0V!). While before I had to resort to an onboard generator when motoring over 10 miles, I have used the second bank only once, it was due to a badly fouled propeller requiring too much amperage to move the boat. I truly think Lead Crystal are amazing batteries.

In my case, the charger has been the problem. Unfortunately, Betta Batteries does not offer a US version of the one used in Europe and other countries. After searching (a lot) EVComponents (and its sister company EVAssemble) offered me a KPES charger promising they would custom program it (9-10 days) and express deliver it (4-5 days). The first charger took almost three months to arrive, and it arrived literally smashed (DHL must have worked really hard to damage the charger so badly). EVComponents would not send a replacement until fully refunded by DHL, which took almost a month (DHL is not a company you’d like to process claims with). Receiving the second charger took almost two months after DHL reimbursement, and it also arrived damaged, however I could make it work cannibalizing pieces from the first charger. It charged the batteries, twice. The third time it died after 10 minutes. BTW, the “custom programming” was a ruse. The same way I recommend Lead Crystal, I suggest people to stay away from EVComponents, EVAssemble, and KPES chargers.


Regarding your batteries, I confess that after looking at the pictures you posted I thought "could those be counterfeits?"


Alberto

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Alberto

Lead Crystal (in the US)

I'd be very curious to see US sales / distribution details, as well as links to more US-based technical support documentation.

I did not realize they had any presence here.

Any ideas as to who actually manufactures them?

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I'd be very curious to see US sales / distribution details, as well as links to more US-based technical support documentation.

I did not realize they had any presence here.

Any ideas as to who actually manufactures them?

I contacted them recently to get info on chargers after the EVComponents - KPES fiasco, they told me they now have a person focused on the marine market:

Rick Shade, rrs@bettabatteriesusa.com, (251) 725 4111

I got the documentation directly from Betta Batteries | Main website Betta Batteries, however they only carry certain models in the US. As I mentioned, the chargers they describe in the website are not available in the US.

If you are considering Lead Crystal, I suggest you read the charging bulletin (link in my post above). Make sure you can get a suitable charger. What I'm currently doing while deciding on a new one is using my old QuickCharge 6-bank charger (10A each), I've connected 4 terminals (to each battery in the bank I normally use, the other bank is a back up) and every few charges, when the bank is really depleted, I connect three terminals to two batteries at a time (30A each) for at least 12 hours. Very cumbersome but effective.

Another aspect to consider: they have three different battery lines for different applications and it is very cryptic at first to discern which one to use. EV Series are for light traction, aimed at scrubbers and small electric vehicles like golf carts, and require less charging amperage (0.2C @ C10) than the other two lines (0.3C @ C10). For any boating application I'd go with EV batteries, however it is better to check with them directly.

My batteries are Chinese made, they look as extremely well built. They came with a QC sticker stating the date they were last charged, in my case it was 5 months before receiving them. Each of the 8 batteries showed the exact same voltage, 13.14V, measured with a good quality voltmeter. Packing was good, and all boxes arrived intact. One of the surprises is how high the at-rest voltage is (and how low the self-discharge).

Attached, a picture of the bank I normally use during installation (the wiring on the left is gone, it was a monitoring system for the previous 72V system I'm not using any longer). The batteries are 6-EVFJ-100, 12V 115Ah @ 10 hour rate.


Alberto

[SV.Louna]

The thing I find about all of this when you go back to the company with a problem and the batteries are less than one-year-old they tell you they don’t have to honour any warranty. And that you are all by yourself, so my point being if you are to try to make this ridiculous system work as I did with a 120 battery charger Vicron with temperature monitors on both banks ... better batteries will tell you to get Lost .. so buyer be where they are not a good company and are not a good system for cruising boat. I really think the technology just isn’t there yet. And better batteries knows this that’s why they won’t honour it warranty..

[Davo1404]

Hi
Is there anyone out there cruising with lead crystal 12v batteries that are only relying on solar power for charging?

[john61ct]

They work much like any other lead battery for solar-only, nothing really different about that combination.

So what is your question?

[Davo1404]

Originally Posted by john61ct

They work much like any other lead battery for solar-only, nothing really different about that combination.

So what is your question?

I am wanting to here from someone who has had them installed for a while that is relying on solar for the daily charge.

[john61ct]

Might be a long wait.

Getting by on solar-only is a pretty complex topic, could write a book.

These batteries work pretty much the same in this context as other types, despite all the hype they're just another flavour of AGM.

So, I'm just saying you'd get better information more quickly asking specific questions.

[grahamb]

Consumer Affairs in Australia essentially show little regard for manufacturers warranty periods.....and will decide for themselves what a warranty period for any product will be …….many manufacturers print a warranty period in the hope that the consumer will believe it...…..and not claim...….

And I agree with the 'fitness for purpose' advices previously posted.....once is advice is given by the supplier and followed by the buyer,the supplier is liable for that advice...….as they should be...….

[john61ct]

Yes but when the whole supply chain's legal/company formation is dodgy to start with, good luck actually getting money back, too many of those come up the whole house of cards folds and then pops back up again in another identity.

Has anyone actually identified the company that owns the factory in China?

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by john61ct

They work much like any other lead battery for solar-only, nothing really different about that combination.

So what is your question?

That's exactly the biggest mistake one could make, since the Oz reseller makes it very clear in their videos that you need a very high charge current to keep them healthy. That's also the reason why they can't replace under warranty. A bit like taking your Corolla off-road for weeks and then complain that it's falling apart.

The only way I can see this charge regime happening with solar is being able to automatically charge the batts individually through a latching relay and a monitoring device for each. Then they can be turned on in round-robin fashion depending on the instantaneous input, whether it's from wind, solar or grid.

Not a difficult thing to do, maybe the reseller should "strongly recommend" such a system to all their customers during the purchase or bundle it straight away.

[john61ct]

All AGM have the same issue.

IMO just the con-artists working their scam.

[Davo1404]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

That's exactly the biggest mistake one could make, since the Oz reseller makes it very clear in their videos that you need a very high charge current to keep them healthy. That's also the reason why they can't replace under warranty. A bit like taking your Corolla off-road for weeks and then complain that it's falling apart.

The only way I can see this charge regime happening with solar is being able to automatically charge the batts individually through a latching relay and a monitoring device for each. Then they can be turned on in round-robin fashion depending on the instantaneous input, whether it's from wind, solar or grid.

Not a difficult thing to do, maybe the reseller should "strongly recommend" such a system to all their customers during the purchase or bundle it straight away.

Thanks, just the information that I am looking for.

[swampbush]

There has been a lot of discussion about lead crystal batteries in Australia on the wikicamps forum. From my recollection the supplier revised the minimum charge rate to c/3 for at least occasional recharges. I can't link as the forum requires an app to view. Worth joining as there is more Australia specific discussion of batteries, although obviously aimed at campers and caravanners.
They did sound promising with the ability to do very low discharge without damage. Testing was done by one wikicamps member and showed promise. But how do you charge a 900ah bank at 300amps on solar? The bank would have to be split in three even to use a honda generator at its max 100amps.