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Old 23-11-2018, 13:33   #46
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Thanks Every Body For Your Insights

An issue with Lead Carbon batteries could be their charging acceptance.

I was told the batteries need a high amp regulator or charge controller. As high
as 25% of total rated amps of the battery bank ????

Any ideas ????
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Old 23-11-2018, 18:24   #47
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

True for any AGM, Lifeline spec .4C as a minimum.

But many can't, it's just an "if possible" ideal.

The effect on longevity is not major, if the bank is otherwise well coddled.
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Old 13-03-2019, 14:30   #48
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Any experience with Victron lead carbon batteries? Absorption at 14.1 to 14.4. Reasonable price in oz. Perhaps would good to throw one in as a buffer in a LiFePO4 hybrid?
Follow the link to the manufacturers page for detailed spec.
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/vic...y-12v-160ah-m8
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Old 14-03-2019, 06:26   #49
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

As long as everyone is clear, Firefly's unique **carbon foam** formulation has nothing to do with AGM vendors' use of carbon otherwise.

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Originally Posted by swampbush View Post
Reasonable price in oz.
Wow, talk about different markets!

Victron is overall a quality vendor with great products and high standards of customer service through their authorized dealers.

No, there have not been widespread reports from the user base on long term performance of these batteries.

But if they are in the same pricing ballpark **per Ah** as, say Full River or Trojan AGM, and their warranty is **locally supported by a supplier you trust**, I'd say go for it.

Unless you can get Lifeline or Odyssey at a premium under 50% more, I'd say go that way instead.

This is assuming you actually need AGM and quality FLA like Rolls / Surrette is not an option.

From a design POV, it's likely worth discussing your hybrid lead-LFP ideas in a separate thread, ideally with links to the specific ancillary devices.
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:08   #50
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

We've had a similar good experience with a 400Ahr firefly bank.

If we went Lithium we would have had to replace alternators and regulators to get full advantage.

With the firefly's we get to reuse more than $12k of charging kit. However we are not utilizing all our solar capacity. Lithium batteries would better utilize this waste. We have added a 1kW of solar so we have excess capacity.

Nigel Calder has also conducted some good 'independent' abuse testing of the firefly's. It was his feedback that reduced the risk for us. Firefly's had some manufacturing quality issues early on but we've had no issues.

When you combine good quality solar mppt controllers with firefly's then as a system we have a very reliable off grid power source.

We are now planning an upscaled solar and firefly system for custom built off grid properties.
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:28   #51
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Hi folks,

Update on Firefly MCF...

They are actually catching up, sort of. The G31's are still backlogged however should be caught up this year. The good news is that the 450Ah x 4V are finally in stock and available at several of our regional distributors (and here in Maine). The 4V are actually rated for a higher cycle life than even the G31's. They are bigger of course...three in series for 450Ah x 12V, 6 in series for 450Ah x 24V, etc. (for instance 2P x 3S or 3S x 2P for 900Ah x 12V).

In stock at Coastal Climate Control (MD), BRJ Solutions (Seattle), Pacific Yacht Systems (Vancouver BC), and here in Maine.

Finally...it's been a long wait!
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:58   #52
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Yay!

The world's expectations wrt the speed of change are so high these days.

For me slow improvements are OK, as long as trends keep going in the right direction.

If the FF technology had been sold to one of the huge players, they might have just buried it. . .
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:12   #53
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Yay!

The world's expectations wrt the speed of change are so high these days.

For me slow improvements are OK, as long as trends keep going in the right direction.

If the FF technology had been sold to one of the huge players, they might have just buried it. . .
FF is definitely not sold...they are working hard to make it on their own. So we're doing our best to help them succeed. Great batteries.

We just did another extended PSOC test here of one of the newer G31's. Rated 116Ah @ 20hr rate, tested initially @ 117Ah before the 30 x PSOC cycles. Afterwards was lower but with several complete full cycles worked it's way back up, all the the way to 119Ah. Higher than before the testing that would ruin other Pb. Never ceases to amaze me.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:09   #54
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Yep, amazing kit.

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FF is definitely not sold
I just meant historically, the Electrotherm deal, or anytime after Kurt left Caterpillar. Just saying I'm glad the tech stayed out of the hands of the likes of JCI. . .
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:12   #55
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

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Yep, amazing kit.

I just meant historically, the Electrotherm deal, or anytime after Kurt left Caterpillar. Just saying I'm glad the tech stayed out of the hands of the likes of JCI. . .
Ah, roger that. Good point.
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Old 18-12-2019, 15:02   #56
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Hi all,
I purchased 4 victron 106ah 12 volt lead carbon batteries for our liveaboard boat in May this year.

All I can say is from our experience so far these batteries are superb compared to our previous lead acid batteries.

We charge the batteries through running the engine or solar when available (not very often here in the UK). I try get the batteries to 14.2 to 14.4 volts whilst charging and this will last us for 4 to 5 days before needing a recharge. The batteries usually get recharged at around 40-45% SOC and are still providing between 11.9 to 12.0 volts.
I know people who paid 3 times the cost for lithium batteries and they get similar results.

The only downside I see compared to lithium is the Weight of the batteries, but in our case it was just a case of shifting some ballast around and everything was fine. Also you don't need to worry about charging temperatures as you do with Lithium.

So overall, so far so good.

Cheers.........Martin
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Old 28-01-2020, 05:07   #57
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrtn2104 View Post
Hi all,
I purchased 4 victron 106ah 12 volt lead carbon batteries for our liveaboard boat in May this year.

All I can say is from our experience so far these batteries are superb compared to our previous lead acid batteries.

We charge the batteries through running the engine or solar when available (not very often here in the UK). I try get the batteries to 14.2 to 14.4 volts whilst charging and this will last us for 4 to 5 days before needing a recharge. The batteries usually get recharged at around 40-45% SOC and are still providing between 11.9 to 12.0 volts.
I know people who paid 3 times the cost for lithium batteries and they get similar results.

The only downside I see compared to lithium is the Weight of the batteries, but in our case it was just a case of shifting some ballast around and everything was fine. Also you don't need to worry about charging temperatures as you do with Lithium.

So overall, so far so good.

Cheers.........Martin
Hi Martin, Does your inverter maintain proper AC voltage at these lower battery SOC? Excuse my ignorance, are you a 220v boat? I gather 11.9 to 12v is 45%. What is the voltage at 20%? Do you find your windlass because of its high amperage draw not running at full speed at these lower voltages?
Are lead carbon same as carbon foam?
Why did you choose carbon foam over lithium other than charging temps?
thx, Joe
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Old 28-01-2020, 07:11   #58
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Hi Joe

We have a 3kw Victron inverter/charger fitted and we have had no problems what so ever with the output voltage. I can run 240v power tools, microwave,washing machine etc. with no problems.
Our boat is 12volt with 240volt inverter when required.

The lowest I can recall running the batteries was down to 27% and we were still getting 11.6volts of power.

We don't use windlass because this is a canal boat and it's not required, however, if we are running anything that requires heavy power supply like the washing machine for example, if the batteries are low I would run the engine to supplement the power.

I'm not sure if Lead Carbon are the same as Lead Foam but looking at them, they appear to be very close in terms of specification.

We looked at all types of batteries for quite a while before commiting to these. The reason we chose them was because they were recommended to us by a Chandlers here in the UK who told us that if he was setting up a liveaboard boat he wouldn't consider any other batteries. We then did some research and found the only people using them were wind farms and solar farms for power storage. Everyone we contacted swore by them and told us that the only real downside against Lithium was the weight of the batteries 45kg v 10kg. This wasn't a problem for us living on a 30 ton steel boat.

The difference in price is massive and considering we get roughly the same performance it was a no brainer for us.

These batteries also don't need any maintenance or upgrades to alternators and other equipment, so all in all they've been perfect for us so far.

Hope this helps.........Martin
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Old 31-07-2020, 18:51   #59
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries ??? help advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
So, has anyone access to real life data for this type of battery? I've done a bit of googling and don't find anything substantive.

Jim
Hi Jim

Any ideas on Narada 200ah v Victron Lead Carbon 160 ah x 2 or updated info .. both should fit into my current hose battery space...

Hope all well in Tassie back in October ( covid dependent)

Glenn
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