Is this OK?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Another source of fires on board is the small rechargeable batteries in modern power tools (drills, drivers, saws, etc.). A boat was recently lost due to a drill battery fire. These batteries require special storage on board. How many of us have a battery operated tool buried deep in a locker somewhere? These are a greater fire risk than the wall wart you can see and smell right away.

This risk (combined with the issue of keeping infrequently used tools charged) is why I don't keep cordless tools on the boat. Permanent boat tools (like a drill) are all corded. It bothers me enough that I have a handheld VHF and a laptop stored on board with li-ion batteries in them.

[hpeer]

Damn, 2 more things to put on yard to do list.

Thanks

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

This risk (combined with the issue of keeping infrequently used tools charged) is why I don't keep cordless tools on the boat. Permanent boat tools (like a drill) are all corded. It bothers me enough that I have a handheld VHF and a laptop stored on board with li-ion batteries in them.

Never considered this to be much of an issue myself, not for cordless tools, and I keep cordless tools on board, easier to use easier to store.

Before someone says "well that makes no sense since they use the same battery tech as modern phones, phones that not only catches fire at times but also right out explode" well, let's not talk about that... I like my cordless tools and I need them....I don't necessarily need the latest phone.

[Captn_Black]

I would rather use a short extension cord of the type you need (preferably a fused one), and change the plug on it to fit your socket.

[LittleWing77]

Okay, TransmitterDan,

Sheesh. Yes. The fire aboard Kokopelli was an engine fire.

That was not my point.

I'll spell it out for you: ANY fire on a boat no matter its origin can get away from you catastrophically fast.

Hpeer is already uncomfortable (and disagreeing with his wife) about that ridiculous and dangerous spagetti setup.

Which is why he asked us about it.

What I'm saying is, there is a valid reason for his discomfort and he should stop using it.
Like - now.

It's just like the maxim, "reef as soon as you think of it." If you're worried about a dodgy electrical setup like that, how easy it is to get rid of it.

The dark side of the equation would be to take another look at that horrible picture of a stunned and devastated couple in their rescue boat with lifejackets on, having watched their home of 13 years burn to the waterline and sink in 40 minutes.

If you can do one simple thing to prevent it, prevent it.

LittleWing77

[Dsanduril]

One likely outcome of the Conception investigation (mentioned above) is that on similar boats with similar charging installations there be a fire-proof/fire-resistant location for charging. This would mean that the electrical outlet, the area surrounding the outlet, and the area where the items being charged are placed are all constructed of a fire-resistant material with sufficient heat distribution/insulation capacity that the heat can't "reach through" to underlying combustible materials within a specified time frame (I suspect this will come out as a fire rating of somewhere between 30 minutes and two hours).

In the building world this is frequently done with a gypsum/fiberglass panel (DensGlass) with the electrical outlet in a vertical wall and the charging gear on a shelf. With the proliferation of device charging I could easily see building a shelf of these materials as a specified charging station. It won't stop a fire, but it may help prevent the spread of one.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Another source of fires on board is the small rechargeable batteries in modern power tools (drills, drivers, saws, etc.). A boat was recently lost due to a drill battery fire. These batteries require special storage on board. How many of us have a battery operated tool buried deep in a locker somewhere? These are a greater fire risk than the wall wart you can see and smell right away.

Whaaa? How does this happen to battery packs that are not in charge mode?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Whaaa? How does this happen to battery packs that are not in charge mode?

If the battery is a spare it is actually pretty easy to short it out and start a fire. Not saying it happens every day, but it does happen. Airlines now require that the battery be installed on the tool/in the device for checked baggage (they hope this prevents the terminals from being exposed and a short from happening), by federal regulation (US) any uninstalled battery must be carried on and in the possession of the passenger at all times.

Spare (uninstalled) lithium ion and lithium metal batteries must be carried in carry-on baggage only. When a carry-on bag is checked at the gate or at planeside, all spare lithium batteries must be removed from the bag and kept with the passenger in the aircraft cabin. The battery terminals must be protected from short circuit.
https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/...craft%20cabin.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Whaaa? How does this happen to battery packs that are not in charge mode?

It happens. Certain types of small rechargeable batteries have extremely thin sheets separating the positive and negative internals. In a rocky rolly boat they can be damaged. When they fail the energy in the battery is enough to start a fire. A fire that cannot be easily shut down by a typical extinguisher. Sometimes the only solution is to toss the flaming battery into the water. Too often there is no suitable fire blanket to permit grabbing the white hot battery. Boats have been lost due to a tool battery fire in a storage locker. None of the fire extinguishers could put the fire out.

[Captn_Black]

Most of these cases of battery fires are with newly released products that failed in design somehow, or with chinese brands with cheap batteries and/or lack of charge regulation - I had a chinese usb powered fan, the battery started smoking one day, fortunately I was aboard at the time. With most devices the risk is negligible to none, and not worth losing sleep over.

[transmitterdan]

The risk from causes of almost all deadly accidents is low. But risk of rechargeable device fires is not zero. A sail boat was recently lost due to a battery powered drill. Over 30 people died on a dive boat due to a fire probably started by a mobile phone left charging overnight. Airlines do not allow rechargeable batteries in checked luggage because of the risk of fire.

On a boat there are some simple ways we can greatly reduce the chance a battery fire will result in loss of life or the boat.

1) do not charge devices when no one is on watch. Check the charging devices every hour.

2) put rechargeable batteries not in use inside a sturdy steel box or other fire proof container where it can be easily accessed. Tools without removable batteries should also be stored in the box. In case of a fire toss the box overboard to cool the flames.

Neither of these steps are difficult.

[Captn_Black]

Yea, I must admit, I do not leave my cordless tool batteries charging when I am not aboard, or overnight. I know the risk is non-zero.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Damn, 2 more things to put on yard to do list.

Thanks

If you don't like it, it seems it would be pretty easy to just unplug and remove the previous owners charging blocks...in fact I would be surprised if he just took them.

[Tellie]

Add the total load up of these chargers and compare it to your circuit. I doubt it's anywhere near a 15 amp/hr load.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Personally I would have mounted the outlets on a vertical wall, and not in what looks like an easy place for water to pool.

I agree - condensation on the hull, at least in this area, can produce a lot of water that does pool in locations like this one.

Fire on the boat is my greatest fear, but of all the things that could lead to a boat fire, USB chargers and their attached devices, in most cases, would not be at the top of the list.