Is "De-Wiring" a Thing?

[Paradise1]

Anyone who has a boat more than a couple of years old has likely seen it. Bundles and bundles of wires and cables running up and down the boat and from bow to stern. Many are working original wires, but many are dead, being bypassed with new wires with upgraded electronics and other things. My electrician did some work last week and said most of the wire conduits and throughways are so tightly packed and full, that he couldn't run a new wire if he had to. Apparently, the problem is that with upgrades comes all new wire/cable, rarely ever pulling out the old. I know people do it, but I certainly don't have tens of thousands to rewire the boat. This seems nuts! Is there such a thing as boat de-wiring, somehow systematically tracing and removing old, obsolete wire?

[Endless time]

I have a set of telephone wiring equip from the olden days before cell phones. One set is a transmitter which is attached to a wire and sends a repeating beep down the line. One takes the receiver and goes down the street to the next telephone box (or somewhere else in the building to another phone line panel) and the receiver picks up the beep (if the line is terminated there of course) and you just run along the posts to find the line of interest. I have used this equipment to trace out lines in the past which were not telephone lines. There might be some equipment out there like that still which you could find and use.

[Endless time]

Ahh they are still for sale. See here. This is what I have.

https://www.amazon.com/Network-Telep.../dp/B00MMYO2GU

[kayakerChuck]

I've taken about 400' of old, dead wire out of my 30' O'Day since I bought her in November 2020.

I'm not done.

[HankOnthewater]

Indeed one can use a CANbus systems (or similar) and do away with a lot of wires, but I wonder (no, I am pretty sure) that that causes more problems than it solves.

But removing old wires? It is a very long and tedious job, . and count on removing occasionally the wrong wire. The additional issue is that one will come across dubious connections, chafed wire etc., and all of a sudden the scope is increased manyfold. Possibly it is easier to do a complete rewire.

However some boats have spare conduits, and have installed a mouse/wire already, to pull through new wires.

[OldManMirage]

Funny you should mention this, as I am heading down to the boat today and start doing that very thing.

I'm not planning to completely re-wire the boat, although it could certainly come close to it by the time I'm done. But there are several things that are coming out, such as an old radio/cd player and speakers. And there are I don't know how many "old wire runs" left behind that I'll have to track down and remove.

I even have some old plumbing hoses and such for a water heater that is no longer there. Those are coming out too of course.

To me it's just another project that comes with buying an older boat. Some are better than others, it all depends on how many and how bad the PO's were about adding or subtracting stuff. I look at it as a way to learn more about my boat.

[rslifkin]

I've definitely removed some wires and such that are no longer in use on my boat. But not everything can be easily or safely removed, depending on how it's routed, where it's secured, etc. So sometimes you're stuck with just abandoning it in place, as you risk damage to other things or would have to do unreasonable disassembly to remove it.

[hpeer]

Have done it, am doing it, a continuing process.

My electrical panel was installed by the PO in 2006. Had “Professionals” do it. Someday, maybe, I will replace it. What they did was criminal. Just this year I found a PORT light circuit where the hot ran across the ceiling but the negative ran under the floor boards. That took me a good bit to suss out.

This old boat has no conduits. I have slowly been adding 6 circuit fuse boxes. So I can run a main line and then protect/disconnect each branch.

[rslifkin]

That mention of conduits is a good one. I wish more older boats had been built with conduits instead of just bundles of wires cable clamped in place during assembly. Some of the remaining abandoned stuff on my boat is just because it runs through a cable clamp that would require severe interior disassembly to get to it (as it was put there during construction, but before the boat was fully assembled).

[OS2Dude]

Originally Posted by Paradise1

I certainly don't have tens of thousands to rewire the boat:

We have rewired about 80% of our 1985 Catalina 30 over the years. It is no where near 'Tens of Thousands', maybe a couple of thousand depending on the gauge wire and length of run you use. (Biggest expense was 00 wire for the batteries to the electrical panel and engine.)

If your conduits are that tightly packed, you may not have any choice but to pull the whole kit & caboodle out. You don't have to replace wire unless it is undersized, the wrong type or the insulation has worn. Even if the ends are loose/missing, new ones can be crimped onto the old wires.

While searching for our boat, we looked at one that was a nightmare of abandoned wires. Someone just cut every wire and left the ends hanging out of the holes while they ran new wires in plain view.

The worst abandoned cable experience I've seen was at work. Over the years they would run new twin-axial cable whenever someone moved their desk or they added a new employee to a room. (Even if a cable was already there, since they did not label them.) When the company moved to a new building someone removed all the cabling from the old one. It created a pile almost as tall as the building was. (2 Story) I'm surprised it didn't collapse the rafters or joists.

[SV__Grace]

I'll share a trick that my electrician taught me during our electrical re-fit-

1. Twist the ends of two wires together that you want to trace.

2. Set your multi-meter to "Resistance" (the ohm symbol)

3. Use your multi-meter to test the two ends at the other end. If you get zero they are not the same wires. If you get "1" they are the same wires.

Since this is a while ago I'm not totally sure of the multi-meter setting but that's the best I can recall. I invested sweat equity while he was working to test and trace hundreds of wires so he could re-use the good ones and I would remove the unneeded ones. Easy test that works well!

[clakiep]

I had this problem several times. Old boat with original electric installation and multiple post installations of added devices, and short cuts due to troubleshooting and improvised repairs. Best advice : rip everything out, check the devices, and reinstall making an electric diagramm. Best example : sailing for two years a 15 year old wooden yawl,constantly having problems with not charging alternators, dying batteries - after this treatment many years of troublefree sailing.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[Lake-Effect]

If you can dedicate a few (or several) uninterrupted days to the task, tracing your wiring, labelling wires, creating or modifying wiring documentation, and removing dead and unused wires is a useful and rewarding task. Sort of like cleaning and organizing the basement.

"Fox and Hound" wire-tracing devices can be helpful, and the ohmmeter trick above is also a good one. Note that the traced wire should not be live.

Most of us have to use a mixed approach; remove a dead or bad wire when you can, or if you need room in the wire path for new wires... otherwise the ends of any disconnected wire should be bundled up out of the way and labelled as dead.

I do like to use Panduit removable-top conduit when space allows, especially behind panels.

[CLady]

It is so satisfying to 'clear' the boat of old wiring 'congestion'! If some of the runs are very tight, I use a few drops of a water based lubricant that often effectively reduces the sticky resistance, (over time the salty air collects gumminess on the wire insulation), which reduces compromising the integrity and connections of the wanted wires.
It is also so clarifying of what is throughout my boat, not just the wiring because this process usually requires getting intimate with all of the books and crannies deep within the boat
It shows such real love for your boat!
Also, it makes it so much quicker and easier to troubleshoot if there is a problem!

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Paradise1

Anyone who has a boat more than a couple of years old has likely seen it. Bundles and bundles of wires and cables running up and down the boat and from bow to stern. Many are working original wires, but many are dead, being bypassed with new wires with upgraded electronics and other things. My electrician did some work last week and said most of the wire conduits and throughways are so tightly packed and full, that he couldn't run a new wire if he had to. Apparently, the problem is that with upgrades comes all new wire/cable, rarely ever pulling out the old. I know people do it, but I certainly don't have tens of thousands to rewire the boat. This seems nuts! Is there such a thing as boat de-wiring, somehow systematically tracing and removing old, obsolete wire?

This is obviously more of a problem on older boats. If you are having new electrical gear installed you don't want to add to your bill by paying an electrician to remove the old stuff which won't change a thing with your new gear.

My boat had gone through multiple engine and electronic gear changes by time it got to me. I have removed three large shopping bags full of old wire and fixtures and still can do more when I don't have anything of higher priority to do. Just bite the bullet and set aside a free day to start the project.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH