Is "De-Wiring" a Thing?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

I'll share a trick that my electrician taught me during our electrical re-fit-

1. Twist the ends of two wires together that you want to trace.

2. Set your multi-meter to "Resistance" (the ohm symbol)

3. Use your multi-meter to test the two ends at the other end. If you get zero they are not the same wires. If you get "1" they are the same wires.

On a multimeter set at Ohms ...

0.00Ohms (= zero resistance) is a perfect connection and means they are the same wire.

1.00Ohms (= a little resistance) is a fair connection and means they are the same wires.

O.L. (Open Line) means there is no connection and they are not the same wires

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Paradise1

Anyone who has a boat more than a couple of years old has likely seen it. Bundles and bundles of wires and cables running up and down the boat and from bow to stern. Many are working original wires, but many are dead, being bypassed with new wires with upgraded electronics and other things. My electrician did some work last week and said most of the wire conduits and throughways are so tightly packed and full, that he couldn't run a new wire if he had to. Apparently, the problem is that with upgrades comes all new wire/cable, rarely ever pulling out the old. I know people do it, but I certainly don't have tens of thousands to rewire the boat. This seems nuts! Is there such a thing as boat de-wiring, somehow systematically tracing and removing old, obsolete wire?

Yes, I have an oldie that I purge old wiring from occasionally.
Only issue I've had is the zip ties some times block the pulling out.

It's a good thing to do, just don't pull so hard that you break or pull out wires in the same run.
If they are stuck and cannot come easily, find out why, there maybe a twist or zip tie in the way.

Your electrician will be happy you did.
Boatyarddog

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Endless time

I have a set of telephone wiring equip from the olden days before cell phones. One set is a transmitter which is attached to a wire and sends a repeating beep down the line. One takes the receiver and goes down the street to the next telephone box (or somewhere else in the building to another phone line panel) and the receiver picks up the beep (if the line is terminated there of course) and you just run along the posts to find the line of interest. I have used this equipment to trace out lines in the past which were not telephone lines. There might be some equipment out there like that still which you could find and use.

These are termed "toners".
Here is one from centec
https://www.harborfreight.com/cable-...iABEgIwOvD_BwE
Boatyarddog

[Jubilee39]

As an electrician I have cleared many faults just by straightening the spaghetti in many panels. Pulling old wires is a great idea but some wiring runs are originally pulled through the conduits in a bundle inducing twist which makes it difficult to remove a single wire.

[Jenta]

Our Lagoon 440 is a 2009 which I understand is old, but it isn't really THAT old. But add to that the fact that there were 3 previous owners that all replaced this or that and added this or that and poof - lots of wires including ones that do nothing.

We tackled the major project of adding Lithium this year and part of that was going to a 24v house bank instead of 12v. I also eliminated the two start batteries for each hull and added a Multiplus for 110v and a Quattro for 230v. On top of that I replaced a mishmash of eras of Raymarine and installed all new B&G equipment which means all the old stuff was replaced with NMEA 2000 gear.

I think our boat lost 150 pounds of wire alone!

The other big payoffs were that I learned my boat systems intimately and simplified many things and if there is a problem down the road I feel much more confident about finding the cause and fixing it.

Used to have the same issue in the IT world where I would go to install network equipment in a closet for a client and the building had been around since 1910 and NO one removed ANYTHING over all the years. It was nuts and as often as I could I would remove the ancient tech to simplify things for the next guy.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jenta

...The other big payoffs were that I learned my boat systems intimately and simplified many things and if there is a problem down the road I feel much more confident about finding the cause and fixing it.

Ding ding ding. Hold the calls, we have a winner.

Labeling things as you go, improving your documentation, and learning your boat's electrical system... those are bigger wins than just removing old wire.

[gamayun]

De-wire and upgrade! It's so immensely satisfying on an old boat. Just be sure to run a tag line or two before you pull that last old wire out....

[hpeer]

Good job!

Thought one of those jumpers was misplaced.

[Dogscout]

Ive done it on the boat and I did it to a house. Pulled out all the old simnet wiring and replaced with new electronics on NMEA 2K. I think the factory must have gotten a great deal on zip ties. my flexible conduits are now mostly empty

[Overdue]

"All New Wiring" on used boat adds what to the value?

Some who work on their own boat do so for fun during the off-season, and, as has been mentioned here, get to better know their boat, while others do so because the yard mechanic's rack rate is prohibitive.

Photos of "all new wiring" is impressive when perusing used boats for sale.

The posts here reference cost from a few thousand to tens of thousands, the latter probably paying $100/hour for a professional.

What value should be added to the price of a old used boat that has been competently re-wired withing the previous 5-8 years?


What about safety concerns for a new owner (peace of mind) and maybe even an insurance underwriter. Will an underwriter, after seeing a comment about "old wiring" on a survey, require an applicant to replace/update?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Overdue

"All New Wiring" on used boat adds what to the value?

I know of one case last year, a decent older motorsailer for sale at a fair price. A few interested buyers. I was on this boat - there were a few electrical problems that weren't insurmountable, and could have been addressed with a couple of days of professional effort, IMHO. But as soon as the seller mentioned to buyers that there were a few electrical problems, they walked.

What value should be added to the price of a old used boat that has been competently re-wired withing the previous 5-8 years?

It's estimated that over half of the boats out there have some serious electrical omission or defect. So a competently rewired-to-ABYC boat, that a surveyor can't find any defects in, should be a big plus. And it suggests the owner was similarly diligent with the other systems too.

What about safety concerns for a new owner (peace of mind) and maybe even an insurance underwriter. Will an underwriter, after seeing a comment about "old wiring" on a survey, require an applicant to replace/update?

If the wiring or connections look iffy (eg corroded, poorly done), or there's errors or defects found, then yes. Boatpoker or another surveyor may show up to confirm this.

[boatpoker]

My experience is that "new" (proper) wiring will most definitley add to the saleability of a vessel but price enhancement will be minimal. It's like buying a house with a "new" roof ... so what ! it's supposed to have a roof that doesn't leak.

As to your underwriters question ... No competent surveyor would even make the comment that "the wiring is old". A surveyor will indentify specific issues and assign a degree of seriousness. The underwriter will then judge that seriousness and determine what they want done about it.

All of my recommendations are made in three levels ...
A: Issues in need of immediate attention.
B: Issues that may enhance safety and or value of vessel.
C: Offered for information or suggested as maintenance or upgrades.

The underwriter will almost certainly demand all "A" issues be addressed and may insist on some "B" issues. Rarely do they demand action on "C" issues.

Should you wish to see how these A,B,C's work in practice, take a look at some of my sample survey reports. Sample, Example Marine Survey Report

[Dieseldude]

Abandoned wires are an oft repeated problem on older boats. Nobody wants to spend time or money to remove them each time old equipment is removed. Then you get issues troubleshooting, and installing new gear. I strongly recommend stripping out the old mess. Of course this takes a lot of TLC to avoid damaging the good wires and keeping yourself and your equipment safe.



Tracing wires throughout a boat is tedious and time consuming. Much time can be saved with a "fox and hound" type circuit tracing set. That is a trade name and generically, they are called toners. One part is a radio transmitter that you connect to a wire. The other is a receiver that is moved close to the wire along its length. It will receive the signal when in close proximity. They do not work through metal barriers and shielded cable though. Here's and example of a "Tone & Probe Kit" https://www.homedepot.ca/product/kle...kit/1001632690


An ohm meter with long test leads can be used to confirm the tone and probe tracing. Might need to get some banana plugs, alligator clips, and flexible wire to make leads that can be run the length of the boat. Of course care must be taken to insure that wires under test are actually disconnected so that you do not zap yourself and your equipment.

[Rumrace]

Take all that dead copper out and cash it in for a case of beer to celebrate the much safer cleaner boat.

[Rumrace]

I just rewired a Boston Whaler. The wires up the lights was green. The stuff under the little dash unexplainable. Nothing worked at all. The instruments had all been shorted out with no fuse to protect them. Major repairs to fibreglass dash too. I pulled twice the wire out that it took to replace it. All the original wiring from Boston Whaler and Yamaha kept the boat running but had so many jury rigged splices it had to go.
I’ve lost boats to marina fires caused by bad wiring in boats.