Is a Propane Generator Feasible?

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

But going from a diesel cat genset to a propane cat genset of about 1.2 MkW size, (think it was a V12, but its been a while)

I assume you mean 1.2 MW, or 1,200 kW?

If it's a Cat diesel 1.2 MW 480 or 600V standby genset, the prime mover is a 3512E rated at 2,000 hp @ 1,800 rpm. But if it's a 13.8 kV prime power diesel genset at the same rating it uses a 3516B rated at 2,900 hp @ 900 rpm. The gaseous fuel lean burn Cats are the G-series, a 3612 is used on a 1.2 MW set.

I own two 1.25 MW 13.8 kV Cat sets. We use them for power in the rock quarry to run crushers, conveyors and sorters. Each one burns 2,550 gallons of diesel fuel per day turning big rocks into gravel.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

I assume you mean 1.2 MW, or 1,200 kW?

If it's a Cat diesel 1.2 MW 480 or 600V standby genset, the prime mover is a 3512E rated at 2,000 hp @ 1,800 rpm. But if it's a 13.8 kV prime power diesel genset at the same rating it uses a 3516B rated at 2,900 hp @ 900 rpm. The gaseous fuel lean burn Cats are the G-series, a 3612 is used on a 1.2 MW set.

I own two 1.25 MW 13.8 kV Cat sets. We use them for power in the rock quarry to run crushers, conveyors and sorters. Each one burns 2,550 gallons of diesel fuel per day turning big rocks into gravel.

Darn blonde moments.... Yes 1,200 Kw, generally 480V. Though one set of seven 1.5 MW were 4160V, I think, as that was the Chiller voltage. The last 1,200 kW I did the mechanical for was propane for the sprint pop site. The seven 1.5 MW's was for a single building in Vegas, They were diesel of course. Fun stuff.

Its been oh 12-15 years since I looked at the cat specifications. Impressive engines.

[CruisingCouple]

Although I hold a BME (UofM, 1982) I have been in the heavy construction and mining business all my life. In our business rumor has it that the universe may have been created by a divine power. But when it came to actually building it in six days the job was outsourced to the only entity able to get it done on time - Caterpillar.

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by jongleur

Does anybody cruise with a propane generator aboard?

What is the output? Would you recommend one?

Getting back to the topic at hand, I certainly would not recommend using a propane genset on a boat. The thermal efficiency does not match diesel power, no matter how much you raise the compression ratio. And there is always a safety issue with gaseous fuels. They all try to tell you it's "perfectly safe" until you get an explosion like this one:
Rogers Apartment Residents Return Home After Gas Tank Explosion | KSTP TV - Minneapolis and St. Paul

The entire gas industry, both LPG and NG, know that gaseous fuels are one of the most dangerous fossil fuels known to man and they spend billions on ad campaigns telling the general public it's "perfectly safe". But if you really want to see how "perfectly safe" it is there's a website that tracks the explosions that kill people and level entire neighborhoods every single week. It's a lot more common than people realize because the realities of it are buried in politics and the billions of dollars at stake in the gas industry.

If you think it is an isolated thing, a simple google search shows how common it really is:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lp+gas+explosions

There is no other fuel that boils at room temperature and has the ability to mix with air at a wide range of air/fuel ratios that when ignited create such total devastation.

To each his own. But I will not have propane cylinders on my boat.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Darn blonde moments.... Yes 1,200 Kw

I only misplaced my decimal point 1/10th.....

[a64pilot]

IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered, but the propane will never come inside the hull. If always left on the outside the danger is almost non-existant.

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered

Well, I'll say my piece and then be quiet.

Honda does not build a propane fueled generator, which means it will have an aftermarket LPG conversion kit on it. Neither the generator nor the conversion kit are designed for a marine environment. The EU2000 et al have a floating neutral which means you have no ground fault protection for your onboard power and it will probably throw an error on your isolator monitor if the boat is otherwise wired correctly. And further, it cannot be bonded because it is an inverter type generator and you will fry the inverter if you bond it.

While it is not illegal to use portable generators for shipboard power, the USCG highly frowns upon the practice. I would suggest buying and fitting a real marine generator.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

IF I end up with a little Honda as a back-up, it will likely be propane powered, but the propane will never come inside the hull. If always left on the outside the danger is almost non-existant.

If by "outside the hull" you mean hanging well over the side of the boat then you are correct. But the cockpit or deck is not "outside". Propane must be stored in such a way that leaking propane will fall outside the entire boat. Propane is heavier than air and it will flow down through the slightest opening and pool at the lowest spot waiting for an ignition source.

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

There is no other fuel that boils at room temperature and has the ability to mix with air at a wide range of air/fuel ratios that when ignited create such total devastation.

Would natural gas & butane not give similar results? Perhaps acetylene too?

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

Although I hold a BME (UofM, 1982) I have been in the heavy construction and mining business all my life. In our business rumor has it that the universe may have been created by a divine power. But when it came to actually building it in six days the job was outsourced to the only entity able to get it done on time - Caterpillar.

The only other industry-servicing company in the US that I find matches their performance is McMaster-Carr. They are spectacular.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by pbiJim

Would natural gas & butane not give similar results? Perhaps acetylene too?

Natural gas has half the BTU's per CF of gas as propane. Butane for all intents is the same as propane, except the vapor pressure is roughly 1/5 of propane. I expect Acetylene to be a bit too pricey.

So natural gas would require twice the cfm. Plus piping would be larger due to the higher flow rate. Storage would be less too.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

If by "outside the hull" you mean hanging well over the side of the boat then you are correct. But the cockpit or deck is not "outside". Propane must be stored in such a way that leaking propane will fall outside the entire boat. Propane is heavier than air and it will flow down through the slightest opening and pool at the lowest spot waiting for an ignition source.

Point taken. My intent is to have the little Honda as a back-up, not to be used unless something breaks and then use it. My intent is to use the propane already on the boat, and stored in a propane locker. Propane largely as I believe I could store the Honda for six months or more and it would work without having to do maintenance on it, Gasoline powered I'd expect to have to clean the carb.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

Well, I'll say my piece and then be quiet.

Honda does not build a propane fueled generator, which means it will have an aftermarket LPG conversion kit on it. Neither the generator nor the conversion kit are designed for a marine environment. The EU2000 et al have a floating neutral which means you have no ground fault protection for your onboard power and it will probably throw an error on your isolator monitor if the boat is otherwise wired correctly. And further, it cannot be bonded because it is an inverter type generator and you will fry the inverter if you bond it.

While it is not illegal to use portable generators for shipboard power, the USCG highly frowns upon the practice. I would suggest buying and fitting a real marine generator.

I intend to, probably the Next Gen one made in Jax. Honda will be the back-up, they are inexpensive enough that I think they are worthwhile

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I expect Acetylene to be a bit too pricey

Acetylene is not even a remote possibility. In free state at 15 psi a shock or jar will set it off. At 29.4 psi it becomes self-explosive and your best course of action is to run and put as much distance between you and the source as possible.

It is dissolved in acetone in tanks. This is some photos of a van that had a oxyacetylene torch inside it and the tanks were stored on their side in the van. There was a leak in a valve, allowing the acetone in the tank to leak off and leaving free state acetylene in the tank.

Just blowing the soft metal safety plug out of the bottom of the tank caused this damage.

[aclmck]

Originally Posted by HopCar

If the choice is between propane or gasoline, I think propane is slightly safer, to have on a boat. than gasoline. Both can be dangerous and require similar precautions and storage. My logic goes, propane containers are stronger than typical gas cans, propane doesn't need to be poured from one container to another, and spilled propane will dissipate to a safe level faster than gasoline.

Sorry but i would disagree on some of these points Gasoline does not need to be decanted at sea using the same logic as propane you simply have spare outboard tanks that clip into line same as propane (i know that many use jugs/jerry cans but some just have spare outboard tanks, some do not have this option for remote tanks on their motors but many do and most that don't can have the motor adapted for an external tank)

If i spill or have a leak with gasoline i can both see and smell the fuel, not so with propane.

i do agree however that both are dangerous

Much harder to find storage spots for propane on a boat as well