Inverter in diesel engine room -- how bad?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by boat driver

not sure if you supporting logic or quoting regulation? issue is understanding the reason for the manufacture explanations and liability vs an individual hardship by lacking room.

Sorry I should have been more clear ....

Fact - ABYC requires only that they not be mounted over batteries.


The rest is me

[Manateeman]

Battery in the engine room? Nope.
Inverter in the engine room. No and No.
We have an Outback inverter which is “sealed”, well, not exactly. LOL
Under the plastic cover at one end, it’s kinda not sealed completely.
Just my opinion. I don’t need feedback. If you disagree, just post your opinion.
Not interested in arguing.
Mark

[mvweebles]

Chris - for a full size inverter on a decent sized motoryacht, choice is generally engine room or lazarette. Engine rooms on. Boats such as yours are generally well ventilated, often with multiple blowers. Lazarette placement risks getting wet which is not uncommon. The recent TG thread posted the old Nordhave Atlantic Rally video where an N40 lost their inverter (and coolant pump to Naiads) due to laz-mounted inverter getting wet.

I'll assume your inverter is at least 3kw. 24v makes distance between it and the battery less sensitive, but still, shorter the better. Boatpoker gave good ABYC guidance snd professional opinion - I learned something today.

If you have a decent place in the ER, I'd leave it there. If you are concerned about temps, I'd spend the money upgrading the blowers to Delta or something similar - will help engine performance at same time.

Good luck.

Peter

[Thumbs Up]

The issue that I see in the engine room is a leak that sprays seawater, coolant or oil. With twin engines (and probably 2 diesel gensets) it is only a matter of time before the engine room gets sprayed with something. You can fix the leak for the price of a new hose or clamp but then have to add the cost of a $2000. inverter? At least make a cabinet for it with it's own cool dry air source within the engine room.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

The issue that I see in the engine room is a leak that sprays seawater, coolant or oil. With twin engines (and probably 2 diesel gensets) it is only a matter of time before the engine room gets sprayed with something. You can fix the leak for the price of a new hose or clamp but then have to add the cost of a $2000. inverter? At least make a cabinet for it with it's own cool dry air source within the engine room.

I'd agree with making sure it's placed and shielded such that a leak somewhere won't spray it. Fortunately, as the boat gets bigger, that gets easier to accomplish.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Battery in the engine room? Nope.
Inverter in the engine room. No and No.
We have an Outback inverter which is “sealed”, well, not exactly. LOL
Under the plastic cover at one end, it’s kinda not sealed completely.
Just my opinion. I don’t need feedback. If you disagree, just post your opinion.
Not interested in arguing.
Mark

Seems an easy enough design goal if starting with a new boat, bit enough to accommodate that.

Starting with a boat that began life with 3 chargers and 4 battery banks in the engine room... it's looking like replacing one of those chargers with an inverter/charger isn't going to be all that big of a deal.

Upgrading blowers maybe (thanks, Peter!) at the same time...

That sorta brings my potential costs down from $4500 (including a lithium bank) to $2600-ish for just an inverter/charger and (eventually) some better suited lead-acid batteries. (Not including installation labor, smaller bits and pieces, etc.) Can't say I mind the potential savings.

-Chris

[mvweebles]

No problem Chris. Delta Blowers (120vac or 240vac) are beefy as all get out.

As an aside, I happened to watch the recent Project Atticus YouTube. Their shoestring cruising has morphed into a $250k Pacific Seacraft 40. They are planning an electrical system to supply 550 AH/day at 12v. To charge, a 300 amp alternator. Now, mind you, one of his first maintenance items on the yanmar a couple months ago was to replace the water pump">raw water pump impeller. Access was so tight he needed to pretzel himself and use a mirror to see the bolts with a cut-down wrench. I can't wait to see how he plans to dissipate the 300a alternator heat in a cramped engine space (can't call it a room) . Especially if they return to the tropics.

550 AH. Wowzer! My, how they (PA) have changed. They started with no refrigeration and foot pump seawater at galley. Proclaim the magic of Patreon and YouTube!

Peter

[jgrebe]

I have to say that there are some really sharp folks commenting on this site. I used to install off-grid solar so might add a couple of points. I agree that heat is a major issue issue. As pointed out, most electrical equipment is rated at 40C or 104F. Over that, performance is de-rated and life of the equipment can be shortened severely. The actual Owners manual is a great place to understand the limitations. In my mind the bigger issue is the battery bank. I've seen many installations where the corrosive fumes wreck havoc on metal and electronics. I would always recommend that batteries be installed in a sealed compartment and vented to the outdoors. They sell replacement caps for lead-acid batteries that condense water vapor - which also reduces the maintenance, water loss and hydrogen generated.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by BillKny

A great deal depends on how well ventilated your engine room is. Most are not.



We have one large blower pushing air in, and a second blower sucking air out that run anytime the engine or genset are on. The ambient temperature rarely reaches 35C. Another key factor for us is that the inverter is almost never asked to carry a large load when the engine is running, but that will vary a lot depending on life style of the crew.



It’s not the perfect environment for our inverter and transformer, but it has proven effective. On most boats smaller than 60 feet or so, it is tough to find a “perfect” place for an inverter charger. They are bulky, noisy and hot, so as much as my inverter dislikes sharing space with the engine, I dislike sharing my living space with it!

Second this, and all of it.

The answer to this question depends entirely on the temperatures in your ER.

Mine is powerfully ventilated and never exceeds 10C above ambient measured at the very top (I have permanently mounted networkrd temperature sensor there). Its not ideal but tolerable.

If however you are seeing 60 degrees C in your ER, then you really don't want your charger/inverter there. The Victron ones won't even work over 65C, according to the curves.

[donradcliffe]

On a 58 foot sailboat I was delivering across the Atlantic the HP pump on the watermaker developed a pinhole leak which enveloped the entire engine room in a saltwater fog for about an hour before I discovered it. Casualties included the genset, inverters, bow thruster, and of course the watermaker.

My experience with electronics in engine rooms is not good. A Balmar regulator lasted less than 2 years in the ER and its replacement lasted over 12 years when I relocated it.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Thank you.

All good and relevant advice. I fear for my new installation in the engine room too.

That means I am moving it to the stateroom. There is an airconditioner that is noisy anyway, but cooler and dryer there.
Guess I am reinstalling mine.

[Jimmyhenry]

We have a Perkins 4-236. At 1,000 rpm we suck all the air in the engine room out the exhaust every 2 minutes. So new fresh cooler air gets sucked in at the same rate. Under way motoring the engine room gets pretty warm, maybe 35 degrees. (C as we don’t understand Fahrenheit).
Is that too hot for batteries and or inverter?

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

Is that too hot for batteries and or inverter?
Pete

Pete, its not great and may shorten the life of the batteries. Can the inverter go anywhere else? We had the same problem and moved the batteries to under the saloon seats which isn't really used for storage. This summer battery temperatures dropped from 32c to 20c.

Pete

[Cadence]

Keep in mind your cruising area. What even can make a difference usage demand day or night. I would prefer having it out of the ER but your area may not prove to be a problem.





also

[Mauruuru]

The reason for Not locating in an engine room with an internal combustion engine is obviously heat. The solid state power electronics in the inverter/charger generate a lot of heat of their own during the switching necessary to commutate the DC input voltage. So obviously placing the unit in a n area of elevated temperature will make it more difficult to shed the heat to the surrounding atmosphere. Simple fact of life, the higher the ambient temp, the shorter the life.....BTW I think this applies to the batteries as well!