Inverter for bluewater sailboat?

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by coopec43

NO! NO! I will use my bread maker. Why would you use an oven?

In a 2½ hour cycle to make a loaf of bread the bread-maker would mix the loaf (with a paddle wheel) for about an ½ hour, then sit while the dough rises for about one hour and finally bake for an hour.

Here are loads of typical kitchen appliances.
https://www.rpc.com.au/information/f...ppliances.html

Doh!!!! I never even thought of a bread maker.

[SailorPat]

Xantrex Heart Interface — my sailboat functions quite well on this brand’s quality charger/inverter.

[CharmCityBoater]

Thanks for all of the excellent feedback. After some careful thought and doing the math on the total $$ it only makes sense to choose an inverter / charger combo. I am redoing the whole boat AC electrical and have chosen the following:

- Blue Sea 30A ELCI (from shore power inlet - longer than 10 ft.)
- Victron Iso Transformer (from ELCI)
- Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 (from Iso Transformer)
- Blue Sea AC panel (From Inverter / charger)

I am not going to use the "two" AC outs from the inverter / charger. Everything going on the one inverter AC out. Only thing that would draw a lot of AMPS when on inverter is water heater and I only turn it on occasionally when I know I will need it. When I do that I can easily switch inverter / charger to "charge only".

One question... What does everyone use to config / monitor the Victron stuff? I assume the Color GX display? Anything I am missing?

Thanks

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Mikado

Bottom line is some people want to sail like they are camping, others like they are in a home.

Now you guys got me buying a bread maker !!! ��

They're worth it just for the smell of baking bread (Buy one with a window in the lid so you can check every five minutes to see how it is going)


Clive

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by CharmCityBoater

".

One question... What does everyone use to config / monitor the Victron stuff? I assume the Color GX display? Anything I am missing?

Thanks

You can buy the cord to connect to a PC and download the free VE Config software from victrons website.

I'm currently debating on what inverter to get for our boat and whether we want a Multi/Phoenix with the separate pass through or to get an Phoenix inverter and have two double pole breakers with a lockout slide for selecting shore or inverter power... We don't need a charger as we have a Phoenix charger.

Decisions, decisions...

[Tillsbury]

Recently replaced my heart inverter with a multiplus 1600. The two critical devices for me are the coffee machine and microwave, both of which transform 12v life. The microwave is used most often to boil a mug of water for the admiral's almost constant tea requirements.

I too bought the isolating transformer, both because I "should" have one, and because it's a very handy 120/240 converter built into the boat for future travel to 120v countries.

Since I will be installing solar in the future, I went for the 702 battery monitor and the colour control gx to get everything in one place.

It's a shame the 1600W version doesn't have the two ac outlets, but it's no big deal as the mains on my boat passes through the water heater cupboard on its way in. I put the transformer in the circuit immediately as it comes in the boat, then a small switch panel in the water heater cupboard that also supplies the ac, then goes on to the multiplus. That way I cannot mistakenly have the water heater or ac running from the inverter.

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by CharmCityBoater

...chosen the following:

- Blue Sea 30A ELCI (from shore power inlet - longer than 10 ft.)
- Victron Iso Transformer (from ELCI)
- Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 (from Iso Transformer)
- Blue Sea AC panel (From Inverter / charger)

Thanks

You may be overdoing it. The inverter charger, as long as you feed AC to it directly and only use AC from it, is an isolation transformer in itself. The ELCI, I guess it is always useful but few bots have them.

SV Pizzazz

[sainted]

Originally Posted by CharmCityBoater

Thanks for all of the excellent feedback. After some careful thought and doing the math on the total $$ it only makes sense to choose an inverter / charger combo. I am redoing the whole boat AC electrical and have chosen the following:

- Blue Sea 30A ELCI (from shore power inlet - longer than 10 ft.)
- Victron Iso Transformer (from ELCI)
- Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 (from Iso Transformer)
- Blue Sea AC panel (From Inverter / charger)

I am not going to use the "two" AC outs from the inverter / charger. Everything going on the one inverter AC out. Only thing that would draw a lot of AMPS when on inverter is water heater and I only turn it on occasionally when I know I will need it. When I do that I can easily switch inverter / charger to "charge only".

One question... What does everyone use to config / monitor the Victron stuff? I assume the Color GX display? Anything I am missing?

Thanks

As a marine electrician, I have to say that I hate it when folks wire ALL of their AC loads thru the inverter. Why? Because that makes it a single point of failure for the entire AC electrical system, and because you have to manually manage any high wattage loads (like the water heater you mention). What would happen, for example, if you neglected to turn off the inverter function (charge only), left the boat for a few days, and the power failed. What would happen is that the inverter would merrily heat water until the batteries died.

That's why the installation manuals on all inverters I've installed recommend putting the inverter/charger on a dedicated 30 amp breaker on the main distribution panel and then connecting the output of the inverter to the breakers that protect/supply the outlet circuits on the boat. Doing so would exclude any high wattage appliances such as water heaters, air conditioners and so on.

In this way when mains power is present (plugged into shore power), the inverter just passes power thru its internal transfer switch to the outlets. If mains power is lost, the inverter will automatically start supplying power to the outlets (if there are any loads on 'em).

Course, I live here in hot and humid South Carolina where air conditioning is mandatory for every boat.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by sainted

What would happen, for example, if you neglected to turn off the inverter function (charge only), left the boat for a few days, and the power failed. What would happen is that the inverter would merrily heat water until the batteries died.

Scott

It is a fair point but it is also a matter of convenience. If you wire all AC to the inverter, so many functions become automatic. You have one control panel for the charger and the inverter. You do not need an isolation transformer. You have the automatic transfer function (how many times has it happened that you are watching a movie at the marina and someone disconnects the main AC, then you have to restart the process. I would say that when leaving the boat you need a checklist and that includes turning off the inverter (it consumes 1-2A in standby, so if you leave it on you will deplete the batteries even without the water heater. Next you do not have to remember which outlets are straight AC and which ones are inverter AC. For my focus on convenience, I would always wire all AC through the inverter. When you come to the Marina you plug-in and charging is automatic (unrelated but a good way to go). The fewer switches you have the better. One of my next projects is to wire the steaming light to the engine and eliminate one more switch. I wish I could also make the watermaker automatic so that it starts at 1/3 and stops at 2/3 of the tank and so on.

[sainted]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

You may be overdoing it. The inverter charger, as long as you feed AC to it directly and only use AC from it, is an isolation transformer in itself. The ELCI, I guess it is always useful but few bots have them.

SV Pizzazz

Well, no, the inverter does not function as an isolation transformer. When mains power is available it simply passes that power thru via an internal transfer switch. It doesn't convert the mains power to DC and then invert it to AC. That would be silly.

Scott

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by sainted

As a marine electrician, I have to say that I hate it when folks wire ALL of their AC loads thru the inverter. Why? Because that makes it a single point of failure for the entire AC electrical system, and because you have to manually manage any high wattage loads (like the water heater you mention). What would happen, for example, if you neglected to turn off the inverter function (charge only), left the boat for a few days, and the power failed. What would happen is that the inverter would merrily heat water until the batteries died.

That's why the installation manuals on all inverters I've installed recommend putting the inverter/charger on a dedicated 30 amp breaker on the main distribution panel and then connecting the output of the inverter to the breakers that protect/supply the outlet circuits on the boat. Doing so would exclude any high wattage appliances such as water heaters, air conditioners and so on.

In this way when mains power is present (plugged into shore power), the inverter just passes power thru its internal transfer switch to the outlets. If mains power is lost, the inverter will automatically start supplying power to the outlets (if there are any loads on 'em).

Course, I live here in hot and humid South Carolina where air conditioning is mandatory for every boat.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott

Well this is all over my head. I don't understand the problem.

When I leave the yacht I will "isolate the battery" (switch the battery off). That means the inverter will be switched off too. (The only units left on will be the bilge pumps and fridge/freezer)

If I did happen to leave the yacht without switching off the battery the HWS would heat the water (if I had left the HWS on at the power point as well). It would heat the water up until the thermostat switched off the HWS.

Am I missing something?

Clive

[sainted]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Well this is all over my head. I don't understand the problem.

When I leave the yacht I will "isolate the battery" (switch the battery off). That means the inverter will be switched off too. (The only units left on will be the bilge pumps and fridge/freezer)

If I did happen to leave the yacht without switching off the battery the HWS would heat the water (if I had left the HWS on at the power point as well). It would heat the water up until the thermostat switched off the HWS.

Am I missing something?

Clive

Well, a couple of things, I guess. First, "isolating" the battery from the inverter/charger would prevent the charger from keeping the batteries charged while, second, the reefer continues to consume amps. And I would never advocate connecting the reefer directly to the battery in any case. Too many people connect random stuff directly to the battery, sometime unfused, which leads to total confusion about what's powered thru the distribution panel and what's connected directly to the battery. Yuck. Every system should have a dedicated breaker on the distribution panel. The only things that shouldn't be switched by the battery on/off switch are the bilge pumps (and maybe the stereo memory), and that should be via a dedicated bilge pump panel.

Again, just my 2 cents, but I like things done professionally.

Oh, and if you left the inverter supplying power to the water heater? Yes, the thermostat turns the element off when the water temp gets to the set point, and then the heat leaks out thru the insulation, the water temp falls, the thermostat turns the element on again, and two days (or less) later, the batteries are flat.

Scott

[Exile]

Originally Posted by sainted

As a marine electrician, I have to say that I hate it when folks wire ALL of their AC loads thru the inverter. Why? Because that makes it a single point of failure for the entire AC electrical system, and because you have to manually manage any high wattage loads (like the water heater you mention). What would happen, for example, if you neglected to turn off the inverter function (charge only), left the boat for a few days, and the power failed. What would happen is that the inverter would merrily heat water until the batteries died.

That's why the installation manuals on all inverters I've installed recommend putting the inverter/charger on a dedicated 30 amp breaker on the main distribution panel and then connecting the output of the inverter to the breakers that protect/supply the outlet circuits on the boat. Doing so would exclude any high wattage appliances such as water heaters, air conditioners and so on.

In this way when mains power is present (plugged into shore power), the inverter just passes power thru its internal transfer switch to the outlets. If mains power is lost, the inverter will automatically start supplying power to the outlets (if there are any loads on 'em).

Course, I live here in hot and humid South Carolina where air conditioning is mandatory for every boat.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott

Scott -- Could this also be accomplished with a main Ship-Shore-Off switch (for boats with dedicated gensets) which has a 4th pole for an Inverter? I've seen them for sale. It doesn't solve the problem of inadvertently turning on a high output appliance such as A/C when on inverter/battery power only, but presumably that would throw a breaker with no harm done. You could also just wire the inverter into the "Ship" pole along with the genset I suppose, but that could increase the chance of someone running down batteries.

I actually like the idea of less automation when it comes to onboard power delivery, but that's just personal preference.

[coopec43]

Scott

OK for someone like you with an understanding of electronics!

I don't want to go to university to get a degree so I can understand the yacht electronics. I want something simple/logical to understand and it doesn't have to be foolproof because I'll keep fools off the yacht. (I'll have a check list of things to do as I leave the yacht and another list for when I come back on board)

I would most certainly hope the solar panels would keep the batteries charged while I'm off the yacht. (Of course I'd keep a wary eye on the weather)

And what's a "reefer"? Geeez! Don't worry I'll try to google it (Maybe the house bank batteries?)


Clive

[sainted]

Originally Posted by Exile

Scott -- Could this also be accomplished with a main Ship-Shore-Off switch (for boats with dedicated genesis) which has a 4th pole for an Inverter? I've seen them for sale. It doesn't solve the problem of inadvertently turning on a high output appliance such as A/C when on inverter/battery power only, but presumably that would throw a breaker with no harm done. You could also just wire the inverter into the "Ship" pole along with the genset I suppose, but that could increase the chance of someone running down batteries.

I actually like the idea of less automation when it comes to onboard power delivery, but that's just personal preference.

Well, yes, you can treat the inverter as just another power source (like a genset or the mains) on a transfer switch (say, "shore, off, gen, invert), but that defeats having the inverter output only service the ship's outlets. And that's the idea: you want the inverter serving only low wattage (PC charger, coffee grinder) or high wattage/short usage (microwave, hair drier) appliances. You do that by segregating the high watt stuff from the outlets and then letting the inverter jump in to supply the outlets when mains or genset power isn't available. That's why inverts have built in transfer switches.

Scott