Inverter/Charger Recommends

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by cgebluewater

consider replacing your inverter/charger with high quality separate units

^^This

For those intending on implementing separate busses for charging vs feeding loads, the Kombi units don't work at all.

But even without that factor, I definitely prefer separate units, even if it seems more expensive.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by john61ct

^^This

For those intending on implementing separate busses for charging vs feeding loads, the Kombi units don't work at all.

But even without that factor, I definitely prefer separate units, even if it seems more expensive.

well that's crazy

My current 17 year original installed charger/inverter is still working just fine except it doesn't match what I want it to do and the technology has greatly improved.

I looked at seperate units, it cost a lot more to do with good units and took a lot more space and trouble to install.

If you think combi units don't work supply testing documentation to prove it.

If you can't please include the IMO tag so people know you are just going on something other than documented facts

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Thanks for this. I just purchased, but not yet installed two victron 100/20 solar controllers for my 2 285 w panels, and am looking to replace the factory 40A cristec charger with a victron 2k inverter/charger.

Wasn't going to get the GPX color, but rather just the remote and use my phone/tablet to check in on everything. Did you consider this, and do you use the GX to just monitor or do you use it all the time? Finally, did you do the install or did you have a marine electrician do it ( i am located across the sound from you)

I use the GX Color all the time to turn the inverter on/off and check charging status of solar and genny. The Bluetooth monitoring of the solar controllers is neat, but I preferred the combined approach of the GX Color. If you don't have the Victron battery monitor, it makes less sense to get the GX Color.



While the GX Color is a neat add on, it doesn't actually increase your charging, so is it worth the price tag ($400)? For me, barely. I enjoy knowing what is coming in and going out with a quick glance at the screen.

I installed myself without much hassle. Just need to be able to crimp the 0/2 cables correctly. But then again, I ripped out the entire electrical system, so I started from a blank slate, which is often easier then fitting it into an current system. (BTW, left NYC 6 months ago and am now in the Virgin Islands.)

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by john61ct

For those intending on implementing separate busses for charging vs feeding loads, the Kombi units don't work at all.

??

What would be an example of "separate busses"?

-Chris

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

??

What would be an example of "separate busses"?

-Chris

I'd guess having one bus bar (various ways to spell, per a MaineSail "rant" once) for sources of charging, such as from the inverter/charger and solar, and a separate bus bar for uses of current (ie, everything else). Some say an important detail for a lithium battery install.

Guess I haven't thought of it before (don't have lithium), but the inverter/charger is both a load and source using the same positive and negative cables. Guess you pick whether you are more worried about an overcharging event or undercharging from the unit?

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

We use a Mastervolt 2500kva inverter charger. It produces 100A DC from the generator or shore power.

You should know that certain power factor correction systems inside chargers do not like certain generators. Such is the case for us. We have to run a resistive load such as hot water heater before switching on the inverter AC input. Otherwise the charger does not like the AC waveform about 25% of the time.

I'll second the Mastervolt. I was looking at that before I decided to go the route of an isolation transformer and leaving the existing Victron charger in place (European boat).

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

I'd guess having one bus bar (various ways to spell, per a MaineSail "rant" once) for sources of charging, such as from the inverter/charger and solar, and a separate bus bar for uses of current (ie, everything else). Some say an important detail for a lithium battery install.

All our inverter-serviced DC loads are on a single buss.... but charging goes direct to the battery bank.

Another buss would be for when there are multiple charging sources?

We don't have those, so no buss between inverter/charger and battery bank... but why would it matter? And why would a "Kombi unit" (perhaps referring to a ProMariner Combi and the Sterling equivalent) not work?

-Chris

[john61ct]

Yes not saying the Kombi design doesn't work in general, just saying it can't be made to work with this design:

> having one bus bar for sources of charging, such as from the inverter/charger and solar, and a separate bus bar for uses of current (ie, everything else). Some say an important detail for a lithium battery install.

because:

> inverter/charger is both a load and source using the same positive and negative cables

Plenty of other reasons to go with separates

IMO

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by john61ct

because:

> inverter/charger is both a load and source using the same positive and negative cables

I don't understand how a buss bar matters?

If an inverter/charger can be both a load and a source when on a buss... do you mean simultaneously?... isn't it also a load and a source even with direct wiring to the battery?

Or... if connected to shorepower or on the genset and the thing is charging, how is it also a load? And if not connected to shorepower/genset and it's servicing DC loads... it's not charging.

I must be missing something... (like Electricity 201, or some such)...

-Chris

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I don't understand how a buss bar matters?

If an inverter/charger can be both a load and a source when on a buss... do you mean simultaneously?... isn't it also a load and a source even with direct wiring to the battery?

Or... if connected to shorepower or on the genset and the thing is charging, how is it also a load? And if not connected to shorepower/genset and it's servicing DC loads... it's not charging.

I must be missing something... (like Electricity 201, or some such)...

-Chris

Don't think you are missing anything; more like overthinking -- the bus bar doesn't really matter (at least that I can think of). Some folks want to have separate bus bars for sources and loads, such as with lithium set ups. It's just a fact you can't do this with a combined inverter/charger because it acts as both a source and load on the same cables. Not really a big deal, you just need to pick either bus bar to attach it to and off you go. Will work just fine in any case.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by fallingeggs

separate bus bars for sources and loads

Yes, when you want to LVD isolate the banks from loads, but allow charge sources through.

Or HVD isolates a charge source gone astray, but you want to still feed loads.

[missourisailor]

Folks,
Although John is correct in what he is saying, he is using some acronyms that if you are not following the current movement towards marine based Lithium batteries, are probably confusing you.

Not to get too deep into the weeds, the Lithium chemistry that most are trying to make mainstream in the marine market, is really sensitive to both over charging and over discharging.

To help prolong the battery life, many have suggested and are implementing using what is commonly referred to as a “split buss” system (depending on which industry you come from, “buss” is spelled with either one or two S’s).

The “split buss” is nothing more than separating the charging sources from the loads.
And putting them on their own circuit/s that can be disconnected from the battery if an overcharging or over discharging situation is detected by an electronic monitor.
The only reason for this is battery protection.

The buss can be, as some have said a metal bar that has numinous wires connected to it. Or just a single terminal post with multiple wires connected.
What it physically is, is not really important. Just under stand that somebody is calling it a buss.

So in a nut shell, all of the charging sources are connected together on one buss and all of the loads are tied together on another buss.
Both buss’s are connected to the battery through a couple of solenoids or relay’s .

If the electronic monitor detects a over voltage situation, it opens the buss that the charge source’s are connected. Thus isolating the battery from the overvoltage.
If it detects an overdischarge situation, it opens the load buss. Removing the excess load from the battery.
In either case, it is protecting the battery from a harmful event that is happening.

How this plays into this discussion is with a inverter/charger combo unit, that technically is both a charge source and a load, where do you place it in the system?
On the charge buss or the load buss?

Being that lead acid batteries are still pretty much the norm, all of this is a mute point.
But for only a couple of cases, there is no reason to have a split buss on a normal lead acid system.

The main thing to consider is the wire size and method of connection to the battery (or buss).

[IdoraKeeper]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Sorry, I should have typed 2.5kva instead of 2,500kva. Big difference...

No worries..I thought it was used for the deep fat fryer.

[john61ct]

Would love to find a good source for numinous wires.

Sorry, just couldn't resist, lovely idea that.

[CatNewBee]

it is not a big issue using combi charger/inverter like the Victron Quattro or Multiplus, because they have programmable control inputs, so tne BMS can in fact force stop charging or reduce voltage if the battery is full and also independently drop load if the battery is empty, while allowing charging. The logic is inside of the combi-unit, you do not need separate relays / solenoids to disconnect the charging / discharging path. So you save money on power-relays there. You still can have the separate charge bus and discharge bus for all other sources / loads.