Inverter/Charger & AC Bus

[sailorboy1]

The answers are all mixed. The facts are I don’t have power assist and my last unit also didn’t. I can run the hot water heater off the inverter and it is no where near overloading.

If I were to rewire the AC panel so that the generator supplies everything directly it would mean the the inverter/charger AC In/Out would be on same bus and everything would depends on the auto sense. Or I could wire the AC In (charger) to a separate breaker. But that’s really the same thing once the breaker is shut.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The answers are all mixed. The facts are I don’t have power assist and my last unit also didn’t. I can run the hot water heater off the inverter and it is no where near overloading.

If I were to rewire the AC panel so that the generator supplies everything directly it would mean the the inverter/charger AC In/Out would be on same bus and everything would depends on the auto sense. Or I could wire the AC In (charger) to a separate breaker. But that’s really the same thing once the breaker is shut.

What model of inverter/charger do you currently have?

[sailorboy1]

I’m just going to leave it the way I have it. Since I know how it works it isn’t worth changing as last night as the transfer switch doesn’t fail.

So this thread is done for me.

Thanks

[smac999]

you have a crappy inverter if if needs to be on to pass through.

the magnums will pass through even if the charger and/ or inverter is off. as long as DC is connected. the victrons will pass if charger is on. will stop if charger turned off. but the inverter can be off.

other brands, who knows.

wiring through the inverter / charger is totally normal

if you ran the genny to the outlets, the charger would not get power, and you would not charge batteries off genny

[bsurvey]

split the shore power line just behind the outlet. current direct to the inverter charger with an in line 30 amp circuit breaker
so the systems are isolated from each other and the inverter charger goes direct to the batteries

[jmschmidt]

Yes, this is normal.

[jkleins]

Our main panel is wired so that the things we want to run off the inverter are wired from the inverter output (lights,microwave,outlets,etc). The things we would never use from the inverter are wired directly from the A/C/gen circuit (like hot water heater and the inverter/charger itself). This makes it nice as you add circuits you decide. I added a water maker and brought the hot wire from the inverter bus so I could use it while motoring. The washer/dryer came off the regular A/C bus since it only gets used off the gen or A/C.
If you want the high amp stuff off the inverter so you don’t accidentally leave them on and run the battery down that seems like a reasonable way to do it.

[Pizzazz]

The best and safest way is to wire AC power directly to the inverter then the inverter charger manages the AC loads. If you have power assist, that is a great feature (I have the same Freedom 15 as Stu and I could set the limit to be 5 amps, so that a 700 watt generator can be connected to the shore outlet and if you have bigger loads, then the inverter kicks in - fantastic).

If you wire two AC circuits you are not saving anything but need to have more switches. Then you lose the isolation/protection functions of the inverter. Whatever you do, make sure that you do not create a loop that allows the inverter when on to feed power to the shore outlet when a power cord is not connected (e.g. if you connect an outlet to both the inverter output and shore power). This is dangerous on many fronts. One day you will forget and touch the exposed connectors when connecting shore power - not good.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

The best and safest way is to wire AC power directly to the inverter then the inverter charger manages the AC loads. If you have power assist, that is a great feature (I have the same Freedom 15 as Stu and I could set the limit to be 5 amps, so that a 700 watt generator can be connected to the shore outlet and if you have bigger loads, then the inverter kicks in - fantastic).

If you wire two AC circuits you are not saving anything but need to have more switches. Then you lose the isolation/protection functions of the inverter. Whatever you do, make sure that you do not create a loop that allows the inverter when on to feed power to the shore outlet when a power cord is not connected (e.g. if you connect an outlet to both the inverter output and shore power). This is dangerous on many fronts. One day you will forget and touch the exposed connectors when connecting shore power - not good.

Indeed! This scheme makes sense.

My Victron blew out once and left me without AC power, and cursing. But I calmed down when I realized how easy it was to bypass the inverter/charger in this kind of emergency.

Future boat will have a gang (two or three) of inverter/chargers wired together, which will provide redundancy (as well as capacity to run electric cooking off the batteries).

[smac999]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed! This scheme makes sense.

My Victron blew out once and left me without AC power, and cursing. But I calmed down when I realized how easy it was to bypass the inverter/charger in this kind of emergency.

Future boat will have a gang (two or three) of inverter/chargers wired together, which will provide redundancy (as well as capacity to run electric cooking off the batteries).

if inverters are ganged together via network (ie victron) if one goes down, they all stop. you'd have to dissiconnect the network cable, and make the good one the master, if it wasn't already.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by smac999

if inverters are ganged together via network (ie victron) if one goes down, they all stop. you'd have to dissiconnect the network cable, and make the good one the master, if it wasn't already.

Indeed, but then you've got full functionality back, just with reduced capacity. That's very appealing for an electric-intensive boat used in remote places.

I've had quite a number of failures with Victron gear, although the last few years have been trouble-free. I feel it necessary to carry a backup inverter and a backup charger. I would feel better with the redundancy built in like with ganged I/C's.

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I know how the new unit works, it’s been operating a month.

If you can’t read well enough to understand the question, and actually have an interest in answering it, ask a question or for a rephrase. If not just save some of the valuable time you are wasting here and just move on.

Otherwise this place is just getting to be a waste of time as a resource.

Seems you like to waste our time.....

[chris95040]

My Xantrex charger/inverter needs to run a fan frequently while passing through shore power. This really bugs me, especially now that the fan is starting to sound funky. And its pretty tiny loads, too.

I understand the benefit of having the inverter controlling whats happening on the ac lines, but its ridiculous that it can’t manage to pass shore power without running a fan. Xantrex stinks.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I replaced my charger/inverter last month and now have discovered that the power to my outlets and microwave must go through the inverter. So even if I run the generator I need to turn on the inverter/charger to get power to the AC outlets or microwave. The only item of that same AC bus that doesn't get power from the inverter is the hot water heater. Now I never noticed this in the past because the old unit automatically turned on if there was AC supply power. I haven't gotten out the diagram yet but bet I going to find the same thing applies if on shore power.


Is this a normal thing? Is there some reason that it needs to be this way? The inverter has a separate line for AC In and AC Out, but I could easily move the wires around so that the generator can directly supply the outlets and microwave. If I do this does the AC In line for the inverter/charger need to be moved to a separate breaker?

With the ProMariner Combi inverter/charger you bought, yes it's a normal thing. ON (either version) is on, OFF is off. There's no AC bypass within the unit.

I think it would be possible to install an AC bypass switch/line before your inverter/charger AC inlet/outlet studs; I've been thinking about whether to do that or not... but in the meantime I just live with it and leave the inverter/charger on all the time.

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

I finally went ahead and rewired the panel. The manual had no info on my question really and I asked the manufacturer, who said it would be ok to have the generator supply and the inverter/charger inlet and outlet on the same bus.

But they were wrong! All that happened was the inverter/charger couldn't decide if it was a charger or an inverter and the transfer would just cycle.

I can see a way of solving the problem by installing breakers on the in/out to the charger unit, but haven't done it. So the answer to the original question is YES in case someone ever reads the question and not follow Alice down the rabbit hole of replies on the thread.