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Old 22-06-2020, 05:10   #1
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Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Hi,

I just came across this:



Pretty impressive and probably not bad to have some of these onboard as backup. I know that soldering is generally not recommended onboard of boats anymore as it creates hardspots.
Still there are occassions where these would be handy.

Though, they are old, from WW2...

Still,a clever idea, they hold the wires together and seem to ensure a proper connection. In shaky conditions an interesting concept.
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Old 22-06-2020, 09:14   #2
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Back in the day they had exploding sheet metal rivets too. You held a soldering iron to the head and they would blow up.
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:12   #3
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Better maybe to use heat gun solder sleeves
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heat+gun+...b_sb_ss_i_1_16

My personal belief is that the prohibition against solder is over done, a solder joint if supported isn’t really a bad joint from a vibration perspective, and the heat gun solder sleeves do support the solder joint
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:24   #4
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

In aviation, solder sleeves are not use to carry any current. We use them to join shielding etc.
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:32   #5
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Back in the day, before everything was PC boards, almost every connection was soldered. But, after being in the electronics business for ten years, I had to go to a NASA/Air Force three-week school on how to solder CORRECTLY. It isnít easy to do it right. The correct solder. The correct iron. The right flux. The extra tools to make sure you donít damage the insulation. A bunch of tools to clean the wire and the terminal. The right solvent to remove the flux residue. Properly supporting the joint to eliminate vibration.

Without all of that, good reliable solder joints wonít happen.

The solder-filled joints, when made by a reliable manufacturer, will work on perfectly clean wire when heated with a controlled heat source. If the wire is old or dirty, it wonít be a good joint. Or if you donít get it hot enough to wet the wires completely. But get it too hot and you damage the sleeve. Using them on dirty, old stranded wire and heating them with a cigarette lighter will not produce reliable joints.
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:33   #6
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Hey, that's also a cool product. Did not know that exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Better maybe to use heat gun solder sleeves
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heat+gun+...b_sb_ss_i_1_16

My personal belief is that the prohibition against solder is over done, a solder joint if supported isnít really a bad joint from a vibration perspective, and the heat gun solder sleeves do support the solder joint
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Old 22-06-2020, 11:02   #7
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Better maybe to use heat gun solder sleeves
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heat+gun+...b_sb_ss_i_1_16

My personal belief is that the prohibition against solder is over done, a solder joint if supported isnít really a bad joint from a vibration perspective, and the heat gun solder sleeves do support the solder joint

Amen,

Nearly every large lug and battery connection on Cbreeze's 12 V electrical system is crimped and then soldered (soldering is to reduce possibility of corrosion).


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Old 22-06-2020, 11:39   #8
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Better maybe to use heat gun solder sleeves
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heat+gun+...b_sb_ss_i_1_16

My personal belief is that the prohibition against solder is over done, a solder joint if supported isn’t really a bad joint from a vibration perspective, and the heat gun solder sleeves do support the solder joint

I have tested some of these:


  • ABYC says not solder-only. But read on; I am NOT anti-solder.
  • The solder is extra low melting. Think about it; it has to melt at the same temperature the heat shrink contracts, without the heat shrink failing. Regular solder is higher melting than that. Many of the ones I tested, the heat shrink failed by the time the solder flowed.
  • Cold joints. You are supposed to heat the wire first, and use the heat in the wire to melt the solder. This is the reverse, with the solder melting while the wire is still cold. My tests resulted in cold joints.
3M makes some good ones, but Amazon picks are generally worse than Harbor Freight for this product line. I wouldn't carry the home for free. And they really are not much faster than soldering the wire properly and then covering with heat shrink. If you are in a hurry, crimp.

If you want to solder, do it by hand. I'm not anti-solder, I'm just anti-product where I have no control. Additionally, the principle of heating from the outside rather than heating the wire is wrong.
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Old 22-06-2020, 14:38   #9
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Iím with Thinwater. Soldering correctly isnít as easy as some people think. But at least when you actually solder a joint, you can inspect it and see if itís done correctly. With the solder sleeves, you canít inspect them. When used in a controlled, production environment, you can destructively test a sample of the product to help verify them. When using them one-at-a-time, in an uncontrolled environment, all you can do is pray that each connection is good.
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Old 22-06-2020, 14:57   #10
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

If any might be interested, the operation goes something like this. I drill an approx 1/8" hole in the battery clamp or lug along the axis of the crimp barrel. Strip the insulation, paint a little Kester soldering paste on the conductor, insert wire and crimp the barrel (multiple). Some pictures of the crimping process in my ablum. Heat the lug with a medium iron (have used a small mapp gas torch), fill the inside of the barrel with lead free solder until the hole is sealed. Clean any paste residue and finish off with sealing heat shrink.

Using that technique for years and never any problems. NASA probably would not approve for rocket service but never any complaints from the Navy.


Trojan did a paper a few years back showing reduced temperature in crimped and soldered joint vice just crimping. Lower temp indicates better electrical connection. Happy electrons make for a good system.


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Old 23-06-2020, 10:43   #11
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Am I mistaken? It looked like a bar code on the inner package. UPC.
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Old 23-06-2020, 11:32   #12
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

I tried similar devices off the boat just to see. I melted a number (5 16 Ga) of these. The trick is to be careful not to overheat and melt the encapsulated solder covering. Easily mastered. The resulting joint when properly done had no more resistance than typical connection on ohmmeter testing but most amazing was the fact that pulling as hard as I can I could not induce separation and failure. I also tried to flex repeatedly knowing that solder joints are susceptible to motion induced fatigue and found it hard to believe that this could possibly fail if the wire is properly supported as it should be. They are now in my electrical kit on my boat; I will probably continue to use traditional connectors but honestly would not loose sleep if these were used.
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Old 23-06-2020, 12:25   #13
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

I have done hundreds of the aviation grade solder sleeves. I use them to put a ground wire on shielded wires. What I noticed before I started was others were not doing them properly and the solder band was often just bent some. They melted just a small area and the shrink collapsed the solder band. The 24 gauge ground wire was just being held by pressure not solder joint. I witnessed many of these done wrong by various engineers and technicians.
When I started doing them the heat gun was too low heat. I could not get the solder to take in at all. So I ordered a much higher wattage heat gun. I still could not get a good solder. I used some copper pipe to make a re-director and concentrate the heat. Finally I was able to get the solder to melt and flow.
My take is, if you have no or limited experience soldering you better take the time to learn how to do it right if you plan on fixing your boat electrical. Too many bad things can happen if you do not do boat electric properly.
Do not use these shrinks ever!!! I can see no place where they are worth the time and effort. I have troubles getting the expensive ($1 ea) ones to solder properly, there is no way these are going to be reliable where I would trust my or my families life on a boat.
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Old 23-06-2020, 15:12   #14
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

These were used to repair open aerial telephone wires when it was so windy one could not carry a soldering iron or a gas torch aloft. One sanded the wires clean, pushed them into each end of the sleeve, and some self-lit using the side of a match box and some one could set alight using a cigarette or cigarette lighter. They work the same way as those self-vulcanizing patches for automobile tubes. The flux and solder is already inside the tube, and they are a fire risk. keep them individually wrapped.

I would not see any use for these on a boat--and, for what it is worth, I always use soldered connections and heat shrink in preference to crimp connectors aboard ship.
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Old 23-06-2020, 16:54   #15
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Re: Interesting find, self soldering sleeves...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoreFun View Post
I have done hundreds of the aviation grade solder sleeves. I use them to put a ground wire on shielded wires. What I noticed before I started was others were not doing them properly and the solder band was often just bent some. They melted just a small area and the shrink collapsed the solder band. The 24 gauge ground wire was just being held by pressure not solder joint. I witnessed many of these done wrong by various engineers and technicians.
When I started doing them the heat gun was too low heat. I could not get the solder to take in at all. So I ordered a much higher wattage heat gun. I still could not get a good solder. I used some copper pipe to make a re-director and concentrate the heat. Finally I was able to get the solder to melt and flow.
My take is, if you have no or limited experience soldering you better take the time to learn how to do it right if you plan on fixing your boat electrical. Too many bad things can happen if you do not do boat electric properly.
Do not use these shrinks ever!!! I can see no place where they are worth the time and effort. I have troubles getting the expensive ($1 ea) ones to solder properly, there is no way these are going to be reliable where I would trust my or my families life on a boat.
This matches my experience exactly!

Too many users would simply see the solder melt and consider the job done. Closer inspection would show that the solder had not flowed correctly and the electrical joint was poor.

Yes, it is possible to get the expensive solder sleeves to work properly but you have to have your wits about you. Definitely not recommended for most users!
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