Idiot Lights

[Charlie]

Thanks Hud:

I'll do that before I start replacing them. I really like the ones that Therapy shows on the picture above.

[jjtctaylor]

I rarely post here as there are so many with much more expertise. But all the above are correct At the fuse panel you only get an indication light the circuit is live, not that the terminal device is functioning.

If you want to know if your light is lit then you need to spend more bucks. Typically the new multiplexed power systems like Powersign from Paneltronics, EPLEX from ED&D (now Sensata), or OCTOPLEX from Moritz Aerospace; all these have "smart" fuses with embedded processor chips and MOSFET switches to provide the system information about the circuit.

They all can provide current (load) info, open/short circuit, operating time, voltage, and other useful data. They will report if your light is in fact on/off blown open-closed, excessive current, load shift, etc.

Rewire your whole boat or just specific circuits with these systems if you really want to know your devices are working. Or just look in/out of the hatch and see for yourself. Most cases the light is enough for these dedicated circuits. Fuse not tripped and circuit live, then good chance the light is on !

Anyone have one these new multiplexed power systems installed ? Any added bene's ?

JT

[Therapy]

I broke a copywrite rule, sorry.

I cannot get anywhere searching the the Good Old Boat site.

I can only find it posted on another forum.

Dang, it was a great intro to LEDs too.

<edit>

This is as far as I could get on the GOB site.
It says;

Below is a listing of our articles other websites have posted online. Book reviews from Good Old Boat are also listed online by date. You can also search through our articles index.
Articles posted at BoatUS, SailNet, and many other smaller and independent sites have also posted a few of our articles.
Independent Websites

Many smaller and independent sites have posted a few of our articles.


This is where I can see it to read it.

LEDs afloat - SailNet Community


Hud, if this is a violation too just tell me and I will quit trying.
Thanks.


<edit - edit>

Here is the dead end at GOB. (Note the "not available online")

LEDs afloat
by Cade Johnson

LEDs afloat: Cade Johnson tells you everything you ever wanted to know about working with LEDs to make projects for your boat. Key words: semiconductor, light-emitting diodes, Alpenglow Marine Lights, ultrabrights, GreenRay, Orca Green Marine, Ohm's law, voltage drop, All Electronics Corp, resistors, assembly tips, resources
Article Number: 2716
Issue: 44-sept/oct 05
Page No: 46-50
Read Online: Not Available Online
Back to Top

[Roy M]

I've got a bunch of idiot lights on my cockpit panel (see attached photo). The top red light illuminates the panel when I switch the top left switch. The nav light switch has two positions, one for masthead lights under sail, the other for deck running lights under power. The five unlabled red lights are my several bilge pumps (I'm paranoid). The red light above the tach is a bright incandescent for when the windlass is powered on, visible in daylight. The switch controls the Balmar regulator terminal, when I activate the small engine mode (and the green indicator light above the voltmeter - I have to plug the hole). Below, above the oil pressure gauge is a warning red led and buzzer, above the water temp gauge is a red overheating led and buzzer, a yellow warning light advising that the water flow has suddenly diminished and that in a short while the red overheat light will yell at me. The blue voltlight is from the Balmar regulator advising me that the alternator or batteries are too hot, or voltage too hi/lo. The green, also from the regulator, tells me the alternator is charging at full capacity, the red is a standard alternator warning for things not being right. The two lights/buzzers over the remote Racor fuel vacuum gauge tell me that the filter is getting clogged (red, for too much vacuum) or that there is water in the bowl, yellow. These tell me that I better switch over to the alternate fuel filter bank right away.

[senormechanico]

If you want the LED to tell you if power is actually present at the pump, you need to wire the source of the light to the power side of the pump switch.

If you want the LED to light when the pump actually runs, you need to connect it to the pump side of the switch.

My 2 milliamp LED's were purchased back in the mid '90's. I'm not even sure if they're still available, but I'd be surprised if they weren't. Check DIGIKEY.com.

The series resistor is necessary for current limiting. Check to see if one is included with the LED specs.

Steve B.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

If you want the LED to tell you if power is actually present at the pump, you need to wire the source of the light to the power side of the pump switch.

If you want the LED to light when the pump actually runs, you need to connect it to the pump side of the switch.


Steve B.

Yea, that is right.
I would want both for more and better information.
It would double the pretty lights too.

I shudder to add all that wiring even if it is small gauge.

I think I will skip it if I get a boat.

[jjtctaylor]

Me thinks the LED's indicate when power is available to the device, either before or after the switch or bail activates it. Does not guarantee the pump is running, jammed or otherwise nonfunctional. Need current and voltage sensing device to indicate a demand by the motor. Multiplexing systems have smarts enough to tell when the pump, or any other load is not working to within it's normal parameters and give indication of a fault. LED is a good indicator of "normal" so at least you know power got there.

JT

[SelkirkWind]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Hi:

On my electrical pannel there are little lights that turn on whenever the breaker is thrown. The only term I've ever heard them called is Idiot light or Dum dum lamps. What is the real name of these lights. I would like to replace mine b/c some are no longer working and the others soon will not be working. I also would like to use LED's. Can anyone point me toward a source for these lights.

Thanks in advance

The original term was "indicator light," but long ago they became popular as fault indicators that "any idiot could read......" Economics caused idiot lights to be used in vehicles and vessels instead of more expensive devices that might answer the question of "what is wrong" rather than the statement "something may be wrong."

LEDs are great and they do come with different output ratings (in lumens). I have used blue and green with great success, just select lower brightness outputs. The different colors are on critical and non-critical systems, so I can tell at a glance and not have to open the panel.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jjtctaylor

Me thinks the LED's indicate when power is available to the device, either before or after the switch or bail activates it. Does not guarantee the pump is running, jammed or otherwise nonfunctional. Need current and voltage sensing device to indicate a demand by the motor. Multiplexing systems have smarts enough to tell when the pump, or any other load is not working to within it's normal parameters and give indication of a fault. LED is a good indicator of "normal" so at least you know power got there.JT

Even better, would be a flow switch (for instance), proving that, not only is the motor running, but the pump is actually pumping.
We use them on Direct Digital Control (DDC Building Automation) systems.

I’m not suggesting there’s any urgent need for such sophisticated (& expensive) information & control systems on a boat. In most instances, it’s a relatively simple task to visually & audibly confirm boat systems operation.

[Roy M]

I follow Gord's maxim. Between my seawater strainer and the seawater impeller pump on the engine is a flow switch from Aqualarm. If a plastic bag or other obstruction blocks the intake, or if a blade breaks on the impeller, shutting down flow to the heat exchanger, water flow stops at the switch causing an alarm and idiot light to go off. Then you have a few minutes advance warning before the engine overheats.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Roy M

I follow Gord's maxim. Between my seawater strainer and the seawater impeller pump on the engine is a flow switch from Aqualarm. If a plastic bag or other obstruction blocks the intake, or if a blade breaks on the impeller, shutting down flow to the heat exchanger, water flow stops at the switch causing an alarm and idiot light to go off. Then you have a few minutes advance warning before the engine overheats.

I know it might sound like I do not know that the more things one wants then the more the product will cost but I think that should be standard on any marine motor.

https://www.aqualarm.net/store/comer...p?idProduct=35

Nice, and only one boat buck!



IMO.

It would do as much good than a temp gage and/or idiot light with buzzer after overheat.

[Tinaled]

Hey Charlie,
What's kind of LED you want?maybe I can help you more

[Sandero]

Shiva's pane is black on black with small rocker switches and mini pop out breakers AND LED indicator lights showing the circuit is closed. Even in daylight you barely can tell without the aid of the LED whether the circuit is open or closed (you could feel it to tell of course)

The nav indicator lights shown above can indicated shorts and faults in the lighting which one could do by looking at the nav light instead. It's really a "pretty" feature to your instrument panel. Note that it requires a separate 2 wire (pos and neg) for each light so if you have port and starboard nav lights they need to EACH have a home run of pos and neg leads.

[bstreep]

My $0.02. You can buy the indicator lights - probably like you have - for a lot less on that online auction site. I bought 150 for my panel, for a fraction of what I'd pay from West or Radio Shack.

I too looked at LEDs - since most of our interior lighting is now LED. BUT, for indicator lights, the inline resistor negates the efficiency of LEDs - they take pretty much the same current.