How to wire and test an isolation transformer

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by flee27

Following what you are saying about not creating an earth ground because of no grounding plate. Is is correct to say that one could not have metal through hulls or other under water metal bonded like my boat has. This basically creates an earth ground? Correct?



Thanks for lessons.



Foster

Yes in an isolating install it makes no sense to ground anything to “ earth” ax it exposes a shock risk.

[flee27]

Thanks for the answer. And the purpose in bonding metal through hulls is so you don't end up with uneven potential paths to ground?

Foster

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by flee27

Thanks for the answer. And the purpose in bonding metal through hulls is so you don't end up with uneven potential paths to ground?



Foster

How can that happen if ground is not a fault path

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Fault in an appliance does not pose a shock risk with an isolate. Supply. Postulating two simultaneous fault is rather “ reaching “ and RCBOs protraction will cover thst anyway

I have demonstrated how you will be killed down to ashes with the RCBO behind the transformer. You need to pick it up GBN

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by flee27

Following what you are saying about not creating an earth ground because of no grounding plate. Is is correct to say that one could not have metal through hulls or other under water metal bonded like my boat has. This basically creates an earth ground? Correct?

Thanks for lessons.

Foster

A bonding system isn’t an AC chassis ground, although some biats have them interconnected, which is imo.

Example: my masts are bonded to underwater plates, so bonded to earth. But this isn’t connected to my AC power ground…

For bronze thru hulls in a wooden or fiberglass boat, they should have no bonding and no zincs. For a bronze prop on a stainless or Monel prop shaft, it should have a zinc because there are dissimilar metals, but again, no bonding.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

A bonding system isn’t an AC chassis ground, although some biats have them interconnected, which is imo.



Example: my masts are bonded to underwater plates, so bonded to earth. But this isn’t connected to my AC power ground…



For bronze thru hulls in a wooden or fiberglass boat, they should have no bonding and no zincs. For a bronze prop on a stainless or Monel prop shaft, it should have a zinc because there are dissimilar metals, but again, no bonding.

We agree that bonding and protective earth earth are E entirely seperate
Look the analysis analysis is not complex.

In coming shower power normally is earth referenced this means a shock path biz earth and seawater exists from live at each I Europe this will be rcbo protected on the pillar it the presence of a earth fault path especially with seawater is what opens up a shock risk

But the whole point of an isolating ttansformer is to break that ground path fault psthb

All fault current must only return tbd designated neutral of tbd isolating transformer it must never be arranged to return through shower earth or seawater

Therefore on no account should thd PE of if an isolated boat have any connection to m seawater or Shore PE

To establish a boat PE establish a pe neutral bond at the isolating transformer as it’s a “ derived “source”

Nicks diagram
showing seawater ground is funfementslky wrong and unsafe add back in fault paths and exposes boat to additional fault paths.

That does Does not mean you can’t establish a local pe but it nevrrpto idea any connection to seawater and shore ground

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Nicks diagram
showing seawater ground is funfementslky wrong and unsafe add back in fault paths and exposes boat to additional fault paths.

That does Does not mean you can’t establish a local pe but it nevrrpto idea any connection to seawater and shore ground

Are you feeling okay? Why are you writing this, do you really feel it is funny to post straight lies and accusations just because you like to kill every thread I post?

None of my diagrams show seawater ground. Now go and report me again.

[s/v Jedi]

GBN has killed this thread with his nonsense. I am done posting helpful threads with him around and will return to using other media and posting just links here on CF.

[Off Trail]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

None of my diagrams show seawater ground

This statement was important for me, thank you! The label "ship's ground" in the diagram had me thinking this was the same as ship's DC ground, which on my (and many) boats includes engine block/shaft. That this is an isolated ac ground network is an important part of the puzzle. (I assume this is correct?)

I find your posts helpful. Please don't stop.

Dan

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Off Trail

This statement was important for me, thank you! The label "ship's ground" in the diagram had me thinking this was the same as ship's DC ground, which on my (and many) boats includes engine block/shaft. That this is an isolated ac ground network is an important part of the puzzle. (I assume this is correct?)

I find your posts helpful. Please don't stop.

Dan

This label confused me too as I would assume this was AC ships ground and it was my point it should not be.

[team karst]

Maybe now is the right time to offer consideration to HF radio grounds and bonding and earthing for lightning grounds. We can introduce concepts of hybrid grounding and maybe even spark gap earthing. Or, maybe not 🤯

[scherzoja]

This thread has been very helpful in my understanding of this topic (installation of an isolation transformer) and it appears that some posters react with statements that are based on their mis-interpretation of the diagram and/or statements based on you misunderstanding of what you read.

GBN, and others, when you think something is wrong with a diagram or statement, please ask the writer for clarification, rather than skewer the poster (Nick or whoever) with misleading, derogatory statements.

It was very clear in his diagram that the ground is in not connected to seawater; otherwise, he would have diagramed that in. That "ships ground" is simply a bus bar to direct the AC grounding conductors back to the electrical source: the isolation transformer.

Additionally, please take a few minutes to proof read your posts and remove as many typos and misspellings as you can because it is sometimes very difficult to understand when the sentences are riddled with typographical errors. This is especially problematic with voice-to-text software. For those whose first language is not English, it is even harder to interpret misspellings.

Nick, I commend you for the patience you have with those who rebut with flawed statements and your ability to clearly explain why those statements are not applicable in an isolation transformer environment, where it is the source.

Please continue to post your diagrams and offer your advice because, with the changing technology, we cannot rely on standards like NEC and ABYC to reflect best practices because they are slow to adapt.

For the rest of y'all, if you don't have anything constructive or nice to say, please refrain from saying it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by scherzoja

This thread has been very helpful in my understanding of this topic (installation of an isolation transformer) and it appears that some posters react with statements that are based on their mis-interpretation of the diagram and/or statements based on you misunderstanding of what you read.

GBN, and others, when you think something is wrong with a diagram or statement, please ask the writer for clarification, rather than skewer the poster (Nick or whoever) with misleading, derogatory statements.

It was very clear in his diagram that the ground is in not connected to seawater; otherwise, he would have diagramed that in. That "ships ground" is simply a bus bar to direct the AC grounding conductors back to the electrical source: the isolation transformer.

Additionally, please take a few minutes to proof read your posts and remove as many typos and misspellings as you can because it is sometimes very difficult to understand when the sentences are riddled with typographical errors. This is especially problematic with voice-to-text software. For those whose first language is not English, it is even harder to interpret misspellings.

Nick, I commend you for the patience you have with those who rebut with flawed statements and your ability to clearly explain why those statements are not applicable in an isolation transformer environment, where it is the source.

Please continue to post your diagrams and offer your advice because, with the changing technology, we cannot rely on standards like NEC and ABYC to reflect best practices because they are slow to adapt.

For the rest of y'all, if you don't have anything constructive or nice to say, please refrain from saying it.

The point being presenting so “ reference diagrams “ that are misleading or convey a misplaced sense of authority does not convey the complexity of the issue properly. The “this is the only solution “
“ approach doesn’t educate the reader rather hands him fish. I want to teach people to fish. Ie understand the issues trade offs and complexity not about far fetched hazard scenarios

Otherwise all you get is another thread in a week.

[scherzoja]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The point being presenting so “ reference diagrams “ that are misleading or convey a misplaced sense of authority does not convey the complexity of the issue properly. The “this is the only solution “
“ approach doesn’t educate the reader rather hands him fish. I want to teach people to fish. Ie understand the issues trade offs and complexity not about far fetched hazard scenarios

Otherwise all you get is another thread in a week.

Well GBN,

The thread's all yours, mate. Maybe you can post your diagram and show us how to properly cast the line, or fish on another day.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by scherzoja

Well GBN,

The thread's all yours, mate. Maybe you can post your diagram and show us how to properly cast the line, or fish on another day.

Give me a few days and I will under a separate thread