Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-09-2024, 16:03   #1
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Thinking of doing LifePO4 conversion. We often charge our batteries while cruising using our 5.5KW generator and 40 amp Charles charger. That charger has a lithium setting, so we could continue using it, but it seems so darn slow in the new lithium world!

After much searching, it seems a Victron Multiplus might be the fastest and most economical charger for a new 400ah 12v lithium bank? It seems to have a "charge only" switch, so I could use it that way.

But the inverter function seems nice. Trouble is, I can't conceptualize how to wire it into my current AC panel.

I have two 30 amp shore power inputs. And I have the 5.5 kw generator input (50 amp.) My panel allows me to switch between shore power and the generator. But it prevents both inputs being open at the same time.

I suppose I could wire the Victron in the line between the generator and the panel. That would let me charge the batteries when the generator is running. When the generator is off, and we're away from shore power, the inverter would power the AC panel, as long as we have the panel "generator" switch on.

But that would mean we'd have no charger available when we're on shore power, right?

Is that even a big deal with lithium? We would have solar to keep the batteries topped off at the dock.

Is there another way to wire this up that would make more sense?
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 16:47   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,765
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Inverter chargers are not simple to wire correctly. and even harder if you nave 2 shore lines going to a single shore / gen transfer switch. As only one shore line can go through the multiplus and the 2 shore netreals must stay separated on board. As well as the inverter output neutral. .

I would suggest having someone come to the boat and make a plan for you. As it will vary greatly with exactly what you have existing.

The multi needs to go after the switch so both charge. Otherwise it would be silly.
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 16:49   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,804
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

You can always make a sub panel. So the existing sources feed the main panel for anything you don't want powered through the inverter. This will also feed to the inverter input. Then the inverter output powers the new sub panel and whatever loads you connect to it. The inverter has a built in transfer switch so when shore or generator power is available to the input it will be passed through to the output (even in charger only mode). In "on" mode it will pass through and charge, but when the input power is removed it will switch to powering the output side from the inverter.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 17:21   #4
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,646
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
Thinking of doing LifePO4 conversion. We often charge our batteries while cruising using our 5.5KW generator and 40 amp Charles charger. That charger has a lithium setting, so we could continue using it, but it seems so darn slow in the new lithium world!

After much searching, it seems a Victron Multiplus might be the fastest and most economical charger for a new 400ah 12v lithium bank? It seems to have a "charge only" switch, so I could use it that way.

But the inverter function seems nice. Trouble is, I can't conceptualize how to wire it into my current AC panel.

I have two 30 amp shore power inputs. And I have the 5.5 kw generator input (50 amp.) My panel allows me to switch between shore power and the generator. But it prevents both inputs being open at the same time.

I suppose I could wire the Victron in the line between the generator and the panel. That would let me charge the batteries when the generator is running. When the generator is off, and we're away from shore power, the inverter would power the AC panel, as long as we have the panel "generator" switch on.

But that would mean we'd have no charger available when we're on shore power, right?

Is that even a big deal with lithium? We would have solar to keep the batteries topped off at the dock.

Is there another way to wire this up that would make more sense?
Of course. Why two shore power cords? Is one for A/C ?
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 17:53   #5
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

It came that way. I think originally the two AC units needed two shore power cords. But with new AC units, you can run the boat fine at the dock with just one 30 amp cord.
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2024, 17:55   #6
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

You can parallel the two AC buses with the current panel. I always parallel them if running the generator. And parallel them if at a dock with one 30 amp connection.
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 00:51   #7
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,956
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
Thinking of doing LifePO4 conversion. We often charge our batteries while cruising using our 5.5KW generator and 40 amp Charles charger. That charger has a lithium setting, so we could continue using it, but it seems so darn slow in the new lithium world!

After much searching, it seems a Victron Multiplus might be the fastest and most economical charger for a new 400ah 12v lithium bank? It seems to have a "charge only" switch, so I could use it that way.

But the inverter function seems nice. Trouble is, I can't conceptualize how to wire it into my current AC panel.

I have two 30 amp shore power inputs. And I have the 5.5 kw generator input (50 amp.) My panel allows me to switch between shore power and the generator. But it prevents both inputs being open at the same time.

I suppose I could wire the Victron in the line between the generator and the panel. That would let me charge the batteries when the generator is running. When the generator is off, and we're away from shore power, the inverter would power the AC panel, as long as we have the panel "generator" switch on.

But that would mean we'd have no charger available when we're on shore power, right?

Is that even a big deal with lithium? We would have solar to keep the batteries topped off at the dock.

Is there another way to wire this up that would make more sense?

The manual is your friend here.


The Multiplus is designed to have all the shorepower running through it. I wired mine so that the input of the Multiplus is connected to the output of the generator/shore transfer switch, and the output of the Multiplus is connected to the AC distribution panel.


I think that's how you want to do it. So the changeover switch on your power controls what goes INTO the Multiplus.


Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-09-08 095612.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	398.6 KB
ID:	294039
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 06:29   #8
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

That makes a lotta sense. Thanks so much!
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 06:29   #9
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,646
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
It came that way. I think originally the two AC units needed two shore power cords. But with new AC units, you can run the boat fine at the dock with just one 30 amp cord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
You can parallel the two AC buses with the current panel. I always parallel them if running the generator. And parallel them if at a dock with one 30 amp connection.
I see, this is a dangerous installation that you need to fix. When you parallel the two shore power feeds, but the pedestal outlets come from different hot conductors, i.e. L1 and L2 instead of both L1 or both L2, which is common, then you create a short circuit.

This is not how the boat was originally wired. I recommend to completely remove one shore power inlet, keeping the other one, then wiring that inlet and the generator output to a manual rotary transfer switch and the output of that switch to the Multiplus. Alternatively you can skip the manual transfer switch and buy a Quattro which has two inputs and an internal automatic transfer switch.

I also recommend to install an isolation transformer for safety of boat and crew.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4666.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	199.1 KB
ID:	294046  
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 07:38   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,804
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I see, this is a dangerous installation that you need to fix. When you parallel the two shore power feeds, but the pedestal outlets come from different hot conductors, i.e. L1 and L2 instead of both L1 or both L2, which is common, then you create a short circuit.

This is not how the boat was originally wired. I recommend to completely remove one shore power inlet, keeping the other one, then wiring that inlet and the generator output to a manual rotary transfer switch and the output of that switch to the Multiplus. Alternatively you can skip the manual transfer switch and buy a Quattro which has two inputs and an internal automatic transfer switch.

I also recommend to install an isolation transformer for safety of boat and crew.
Most "parallel" setups I've seen with 2 inlets simply feed both sides of the panel from one of the inlets and leave the other inlet disconnected and doing nothing (for exactly the reason you described). Basically it's a selector switch for whether panel 2 gets power from inlet 1 or 2.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 10:49   #11
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
Most "parallel" setups I've seen with 2 inlets simply feed both sides of the panel from one of the inlets and leave the other inlet disconnected and doing nothing (for exactly the reason you described). Basically it's a selector switch for whether panel 2 gets power from inlet 1 or 2.
Yes. That's how it's set up. You can't parallel the two buses without disconnecting the second shore power inlet.
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 11:21   #12
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 524
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

This is our current AC panel. Hope you can see the upload. I'll have to look at the back side of it when I get to the boat, but I think I may be able to take the Victron "AC in" from the Shore 1 and Generator switches (which can't both be on at the same time.) Then I can connect the Victron "AC out" to the Bus 1 input, (removing the current connection from there to Shore 1 and the generator, of course.)

Does that sound right?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 4309.pdf (605.0 KB, 31 views)
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 12:21   #13
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,646
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
This is our current AC panel. Hope you can see the upload. I'll have to look at the back side of it when I get to the boat, but I think I may be able to take the Victron "AC in" from the Shore 1 and Generator switches (which can't both be on at the same time.) Then I can connect the Victron "AC out" to the Bus 1 input, (removing the current connection from there to Shore 1 and the generator, of course.)

Does that sound right?
Exactly. The two breakers replace the rotary transfer switch
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 12:52   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,765
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
Most "parallel" setups I've seen with 2 inlets simply feed both sides of the panel from one of the inlets and leave the other inlet disconnected and doing nothing (for exactly the reason you described). Basically it's a selector switch for whether panel 2 gets power from inlet 1 or 2.
That’s called transfer. Sending 1 line to the other side of the panel so both halves share 1 input . Not Parellel. Parellel would have 2 30a cords forming a single 60a feed on the boat. But that now blows elci / gfci dock breakers which is becoming more common.

For example look at Bluesea 8498.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9856.jpeg
Views:	21
Size:	35.8 KB
ID:	294073  
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2024, 12:57   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,765
Re: How to wire AC side of Victron Multiplus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tia Bu View Post
That makes a lotta sense. Thanks so much!
It makes sense with a single shore cord. Yours is more complicated.
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Victron

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Victron Multiplus in Parallel Fuss Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 05-10-2017 14:51
Victron Multiplus compact inverter charger keepondancin Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 13-08-2013 05:49
Victron Multiplus PC Connection svpresent Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 10-11-2010 13:07
Victron MultiPlus vs. MasterVolt Masscombi BlueSovereign Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 15 05-09-2009 20:47

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.